SHELBY HOULIHAN SPEAKS! Issues statement, does RW Q&A & 90min podcast explaining her side.

Shelby Houlihan. Convicted death row inmates.

Rojo, can we please get the count-up clock on the homepage like we had for Alberto?

The podcast is an hour and 31 minutes long... 91 minutes! I want the Cliff's Notes version. Does she say or speculate on how nandrolone got into her body/sample? Does she admit or at least infer that the Burrito Defense was a legal maneuver that her attorney/handlers recommended?

She should be able to address both of those questions in 91 seconds.

How many NOP athletes tested positive?

How many BTC athletes have tested positive?

If you manage to get Shelby Houlihan on your podcast, please include that sentence as part of her introduction.

Hard pass. I listened to Lance Armstrong for over 10 years and how did that turn out? We have testing for a reason, and someone was actually caught, no analysis I've read offers any reasonable hope.

Shelby there, facing up to the toughest scrutiny that a school kid can offer. Look, I don't blame the kid for either wanting to do this interview or not asking difficult questions. But this is not hearing Shelby's side of the story and treating her critically and with credibility, it is just a platform to say what she wants unchallenged. The host can demand all the respect that they like, I'll respect Houlihan when she agrees to an interview with a real journalist who can ask her probing questions.

Except they had no problem holding a "press conference," attempting to get ahead of the issue where they publicly obfuscated facts and trashed anti-doping authorities before cowering back into the darkness.

And with due respect about going onto your podcast, it's going to be very, very hard to see you guys as objective since you all have been consistently very vocal and sympathetic advocates on her behalf and, most egregiously, having a fundraiser for her.

"I don't have the answers to what happened. For all I know it could've been a vitamin. It could've been the burrito, or it could've been someone around me. Like maybe I got drugged and didn't know about it, and maybe that person's still around. Like it's created such a fear of not knowing what happened that it's scary to put myself back into that competitive environment at some point."

Letsrun Track Talk podcast goes home devastated??

And yet Shelby is still training with the same team, with the same coach, and the same teammates. Yeah, that makes sense.

I LISTENED TO THE WHOLE THING SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO (and I took notes - work got cancelled for the day so apparently I make bad life decisions doing this with my free morning). Forgive any formatting errors, copy and pasted this into the text box and the formatting went wild. Italics are my personal takes if you want to ignore those. Read after the fact the interview is a high schooler - kudos to him, but still frustrating that the most we have as a community is these one sided questions from either Shelby or Jerry.

Spoiler - it doesn't really have anything new. Overall, its like a lawyer setting up a witness for slam dunk/softball questions. It isn't an investigative tell-all. Most glaring things being she thinks burden of proof should be shifted for low concentration positives. Said the number one regret about the whole thing was the negative effect it had on her teammates which makes it kinda funny that she makes zero reference to the two athletes who left BTC because of her continuing to train in too close proximity to the team.

The interview opens with simple questions, have you ever doped, how many times have you tested negative etc.

15min in, says the AIU didn't communicate well and treated her like a "dirty
athlete." Said they "didn't really communicate for 6 months." Said she pessimsitcally felt they were dragging it out so she couldn't race at trials. She didn't expect to lose the case. Was going to do a 10k in Portland the week before trials because she expected to be
cleared.

Said it was normal for AIU to ghost athletes. "From what I've heard it seems to be a pattern, this is what they do." AIU never replied to the email request to compete while provisionally
suspended.

25min - speaks about nandrolone. Seems to be some conflicting stuff vs what Ross Tucker was saying. Tucker said if it was a nandrolone pre cursor that wouldn't show up in the hair tests Shelby did. Shelby is saying it would have so she only could have taken the oral nandrolone one time. Says no benefit from oral nandrolone. Said there was only a 30min to hr window where she would have those amounts of nandrolone in her system if she did it deliberately. Said if she did that, she would have just missed the test or moved her window. This seems deliberately misleading as the AIU don't think she took oral nandrolone but an oral nandrolone precursor which is different. "There was never any proof I took nandrolone deliberately." Said her blood disorder would make her taking nandrolone medically reckless. It would not have made sense for me to take it. Big Lance Armstrong, vibes with the whole it would endanger me defence.

Burrito was the best possible explanation they could come up with but she isn't certain personally that's what caused it.

On her support system: said her teammates saved her life. Said she was depressed, implied she was suicidal over this and had struggled with depression her whole life.

Understands why people are skeptical of the burrito. Felt frustrated that the media discussion boiled down to burritos and not the rest of the case. Made the website as she wanted people to have more details on the case though admits maybe it's a "little biased."

Halfway through. Need another coffee. No new information here really so far.

Asked what she felt was wrong with the process:
1) poor communication
2) Dr Ayotte having handled the case, being a lead expert. Felt it was conflict of interest handling her case and giving expert testimony. Also previous case of false testimony. Request for 2nd opinion denied.
3) arguments over the technical doc. Delta values, etc. Basically the same as what was argued at the CAS on the technical doc and how there should have been pharmacokinetics. See CAS judgment or Ross Tucker for that (he said she could have done one anyway and explains why it would be nigh impossible to exonerate her through one). Fixation on this also seems misleading given part of the reason the CAS dismissed this was because it wouldn't have a material difference even if there was one.
4) no evidence I cheated. They didn't have to prove that. That was eye opening for her. burden of proof should be lighter in low concentration cases. There should be "burden to prove intent on AIU." This was kinda shocking to me. Micro dosing would boom and no one would be caught.

Long segment on nandrolone/pig offal stuff. Basically standard stuff argued on this board regularly and nothing new.

Hair sample - polygraph test brought up again.

Character appeal - I'd never do it, not interested in cheating, i dont wear the super shoes. I dont have interest in doping ever etc. Basically string together a greatest hits of Lance Armstrong character defences.

Is a struggle with workouts these days. Harder to push through mentally. Sometimes DNFs workouts but still loves running and will still come back in 2025. Emphasized "doing everything alone" hard - running is "very lonely" now. Indirect shot on allegations of training with BTC?

"Maybe somebody drugged me and that person is still around" - Shelby reads LetsRun confirmed.

"What have you learned about yourself throughout this tumultuous process?" - an example of some of the hard hitting questions that "demand" our respect. FWIW, Shelby says she is feeling the most secure and stable she has ever felt in her life now.

A fair point - she say she was fortunate financially to be able to fight the case. If she was poorer, she would have just had to accept a plea deal.

Swiss Court appeal - felt they had a good case. Had other "anti-doping experts" who felt she had been wronged - would be curious which ones. Hasn't been given the reasons for the denied appeal yet. Relieved the process is over so she can be out of limbo, though obviously not the result she wanted.

Last 25minutes. Host says he wants to go through "common misconceptions" about the case.

Going back over how Shelby thinks the process is not run well and not believing in the
system "they aren't investigating to find out the truth" - see above comments about how she thinks burden of proof should be on AIU for low concentrations, and she is scared to go back to compete because she does not trust the anti-doping system. "When I announced all this, so many athletes reached out saying it had happened to them." Again, would love more information on that. Wish the interview asked a follow up rather than more fluff questions. Thinks that at the very least, 4 year bans are too much for low concentrations.

Feels her 4 year ban was harsh - they offered a plea deal 3 years instead of 4 but she had to
take it before going to trial. She said no. She said she wasn't willing to compromise on her values because she was clean etc, but that it would have been a no brainer for her (implied, if she was dirty). This stands out as a weak argument supporting her innocence, because she also has said she and her support team all truly believed that they would win their case, and then later even believed they had a good shot before the Swiss Court. Why take a plea deal in a case you're think you're going to win? Again, kinda misleading and fudging.

"How hard was it watching the outside world ruthlessly slander you, your
family, and your teammates over the past year?" - direct quote. If you guys wanted an in depth journalistic exploration of the issues, this interview ain't it (again the interview is a kid to be fair). She chooses not to look at negative comments. Says they don't know her or the facts. The worst thing is that her teammates have to deal with this - "it makes me sad knowing that when they run they'll probably have to answer questions about me" says
athlete who is doing podcasts on this topic and posting on social media from Park City, right before her teammates run in US 10k trials. I'm sure that won't make journalists want to bring this up with those teammates this weekend at all. Nothing she could do whatsoever to mitigate the attention brought onto her teammates before critical races....

Brings up her progressions - what misconceptions are there about her stunning progression - "can you speak to just how hard you worked to achieve those results?" Shelby says it is very unfair - you don't see my workouts, you don't see how hard I work. Thinks her progression makes sense looking at her whole career. There are big jumps in her times, but she thinks lots of factors in play people don't know about. "It's normal to improve every year when you don't get injured." That's what happened she says. 2017-2018, that 5k jump was pretty big, but she felt she could have run 14:40 in 2017 but she butchered it she said so was not really a big jump. Focuses on 5k, does not mention how she goes from 4:06 getting beaten by randos to 3:57 slapping Laura Muir and Sifan Hassan. "You do not know how hard I work." No mention of improved nutrition.

"What are things you want people to know about you and your character?" Sorry these questions winding me up more as they go on. She genuinely loves this sport, the sport has saved her life. It is where she turns. She values honesty, doing things the right way - the world is black and white for her, right and wrong. "People don't know me" again.

**What do you want anti-doping agencies to change?** - In her mind, more than 1 expert opinion required (fair tbh), more research done on food contamination, investigations should be done "on both sides" so burden of proof should be equally distributed, athletes should be able to request certain tests be done with their sample, there should be better communication between governing body and athletes, and should be some sort of set timeline to be followed in these cases. Honestly, I'm happy that after a year of saying the system is broken we finally have what she thinks should be. The burden of proof one is super problematic though. Some of these are fair - if the AIU did actually just ghost her for 6 months that isn't okay even if she is guilty. Best question of the whole interview. Thinks there should be mental health referral process for athletes going through the system.

Would you change anything in how you approached this? Answer, no not really.

What would you say to those who don't believe you? She says I understand the skepticism, just hope people keep an open mind. Read my website.

Plans moving forward? Still figuring that out. Want to continue to speak about the problems. Will continue to run, keep her fitness up, comeback in 2025 and pick up where she left off. Looking for jobs.

There ya go folks. Not an unbiased summary, but tried to show where my own points of view enters.

Good that she have ditched the burrito excuse. I'll hear an interview with her the day she is completely open about everything.

This is a great thread btw, despite my worst fears.

That's the whole point. Selby wants to proclaim her innocence, but she won't do it with a real journalist because she is purposely avoiding hard questions.

GP: Hi, um, I'm Gary Petersen from Brookview Elementary School and this is "Peas in a Podcast." *cue introductory xylophone music* Um, my guest on today's show is Asbel Kiprop, Olympic Gold medalist and one of the greatest 1500 meter runners of all time.

AK: Thank you for having me, Gary. It is a pleasure to be here with you today. I have not addressed the media lately, but I really want to get my side of the story out there, and I know that you're well-known for being fair and balanced in your reporting. My lawyers from Nike suggested I grant you an exclusive interview.

GP: Gee, thanks! Um, Mr. Kiprop, you are known for being as fast as a gazelle, but are you also as fast as a cheetah?

AK: Ha, well, I don't know about all that Gary, but I am very, very fast and I could easily outrun a cheetah over longer distances.

GP: Wow! Interesting. Speaking of cheetahs, you were recently banned from track and field for serious doping violations. Um, would you care to comment?

AK: This interview is over.

For the record, I think her burrito excuse was always absurd, statistically so, but I doubt she’ll ever change her story now, because she raised money online for a legal defense based on that absurd excuse. If she even said, “Oh, hell, I was playing the grey zone like every pro-level athlete and miscalculated, whoops, gonna do my time, sorry” — which, frankly, most would understand — wouldn’t she would now be on the hook for some sort of fraud?

Not the first. I remember her doing a long radio interview last Fall but can’t remember the name of that show.