Rupp still the king - 26:44 with no super spikes

I'm not going to say that the improvement in college times isn't good evidence, however, there definitely has not been this type of improvement on the pro side which definitely makes me question the whole "supershoe" narrative. As the poster right after me pointed out, there's been a sharp improvement in highschool times happening for years before the shoes even came out. Maybe there's just been added interest in track over the years and there's now a larger pool of talent.

No, no he wouldn't. Try again.

Why wouldn't he? Rupp was silver to one of the greatest distance runners of all time.

There HAS been the same type of improvement on the pro side. You'd have to be BLIND to miss it. World records in the men's and women's 5k and 10k. Some of the records have been broken numerous times. National records everywhere as well.

Jake Wightman's PR is only .01 slower than SAID AOUITA and DANIEL KOMEN. He's run faster than Cram, Coe, Nick Willis, Centro, Ovett and other legends. Wightman is a decent runner but anyone who thinks he is in the same realm as Aouita and Komen is an ignoramus.

Some years ago there were threads talking about how Nenow was the true goat compared to Galen, it's a passing of the torch

Rupp had (maybe still has?) L-Carnitine drips, testosterone cream, and thyroid meds (maybe more, which is likely but unknown as to what specifically). Fischer has nandrolone. Concerning drugs, I'd give Rupp the edge, but it's close to a wash.

However, Fischer has 2nd/3rd generation super shoes, so that gives him a massive advantage against Rupp there.

With no drugs/Alberto interventions, Rupp was probably a 27:50 - 28:20 guy. No drugs and w/pre-super shoes, Fischer is probably a 27:20-45 guy.

Absolutely this. This is the biggest takeaway from tonight, and one we shouldn't be so quick to forget in the rush to focus on the shoes and wavelight (although those are important conversations).

We now have someone who, despite all other athletes in the world having access to the same shoes, is the second fastest active 10k runner in the world.

A showdown between Cheptegei, Fisher, and Kiplimo would be legendary, even though it still massively favors Cheptegei. Hope we get to see it this summer.

You could say this about any world record tho... Obviously technology is going to improve over time.

Lol. That is some hilariously delusional thinking. Fishers time is not that much of a surprise???? WTF. He showed no more talent in HS and college than many other top high school Runners that have come through the ranks in recent years. Not a person on the planet was predicting he would someday be a 2630 10K Runner.

However even with the advantage of the shoes he has run very very impressively. His performances in the Olympics last year prove that. If the shoes give him three seconds per mile he basically ran what solinsky would have run if Chris had not waited till the final 800 to crush it. Low 26:50's. Thats really awesome and amazing. But it's not 26:33, barely beating your training partner. That's science fiction, or..... a huge equipment advantage over past runners [ like a Juiced bat or baseball or the banned swimsuits or modern bikes over old bicycles. Do people really think those things don't make a difference in performance in those sports???? How delusional can one be]

Let's not forget that the 10,000 WR has only improved by 1 sec/mile, and the 5,000 WR even less. The super spikes aren't that super.

Ironically, Rupp was the first to use cheaterfly prototypes at the Olympic Marathon Trials. He was also one of a select few to have them in Rio.

Yes, the WR were improved by someone who had roughly ran the same time in the 5,000 for the previous 4 years (12:50-13:00) and had barely broken 26:50 in the 10. Yes, the super spikes are super. In one year Cheptegei improved 15 seconds in the 5 and almost 40 seconds in the 10 after not improving at all the previous 4 years.

I’d encourage you to look into the meme “Rupp certified”- ie dns on multiple occasions because of bad weather or difficult courses.

The guy used every gadget known to man to try and gain an edge- from breathe right strips to wearing magnets to bed to altitude rooms with a treadmill in them. Super shoes were the least of his shenanigans (note that Rupp also had the FIRST EVER prototype dragonfly spikes in the Rio 10k).

He had no wave light that night in Eugene, but he had Sambu and a few others paid to take him through deep, deep into the race.

I think you’re skewing the info in your brain to benefit your opinion- and that’s ok- we all do it.

Fischer's run and also recent performances have been very, very impressive. Although I don't like the wavelight technology. Only time will tell how is career will progress from here.

If I had to choose tho, I'd take Galen over Fischer everyday and twice on Sundays.

Let's not forget that the previous 10,000m WR had dozens of years of attempts with similar training knowledge as now. The superspikes have been widely available about two seasons.

Agreed. Currently coach hs and see a wide talent pool of kids lace the newer spikes up - obviously the metric is different for elites and less consistent at our level - but our data says it’s ~4s in the 1600 and ~7.5-8s in the 3200. No real idea about impacts for xc, the roads, or events over 2 mile really, but I think it’s fair to say they’re getting at least 2-3s per mile over 10k. Especially if elites are mechanically more efficient, they’ll capitalize on the shoes’ potential benefits more.

Then Rodgers is better with his marathon time from 1979 at Boston.

Those decades of accelerated physical development really paid off, huh.

Wild how that works

There are a lot of similarities between Rupp and Fisher. Aside from the obvious Nike affiliation, they are both smart tacticians, brought along slowly by their coaches (Rupp happened to have pretty much the same coach the whole time). In fact, Fisher's coaches all had the long game in mind and this is a great example of what coaches can do to take their ego out of it. From high school through college he had coaches who knew he had a bright future.