Big Ben Top 10 All Time?

dafdf wrote:

I don't care about his religious values, but he has a 102 passer rating in the playoffs (highest of all-time), and he has 3 of the top 6 passing yard games in history of the Super Bowl.

That's just like, a weirdly specific set of stats to put someone into the top 10 QBs all-time.

Like, if we care solely about playoff/super bowl performance, we would focus on winning in the big game, not QB rating or passing yards. And if we look at his overall career instead of cherry picking playoff stats, he just wasn't that good.

I considered including Warner as well. I was surprised when I checked his stats that it was really just a 3 year stretch when he was that good. He was a Pro Bowler and total stud from 1999-2001 then much less effective after that. Certainly a high peak but hard to compare to others on these lists given their longevity.

And no, I'm not religious. I was actually annoyed when I stood in line to get Warner's autograph as a kid and he wouldn't sign my football because he was only signing cards of disciples, but was out by the time I got to the front of the line. Didn't want us selling it on eBay.

dafdf wrote:

I don't care about his religious values, but he has a 102 passer rating in the playoffs (highest of all-time), and he has 3 of the top 6 passing yard games in history of the Super Bowl.

Nah, Bart Starr has him beat at 104.8.

And, two superbowl wins, 2 superbowl MVPs, NFL MVP, 5 NFL championships, etc, etc, etc...not bad for a 17th round draft pick eh?

I never compare these older players to the current group. But Starr still ranks up there with the greatest of all time. It was just a different game then.

Vineyard Vines wrote:

dafdf wrote:

I don't care about his religious values, but he has a 102 passer rating in the playoffs (highest of all-time), and he has 3 of the top 6 passing yard games in history of the Super Bowl.

Nah, Bart Starr has him beat at 104.8.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm

BTW the above link is pretty interesting. You see all the usual suspects. But cripes, Peyton Manning has a terrible passer rating of 87.4 in the playoffs, tied with his brother for crying out loud. Just shows what a massive choker Manning was in the playoffs. He couldn't win without a strong defense to bail them out of his boneheaded mistakes.

Stating the obvious wrote:

Great discussion. Just too many to choose from!

But clearly Ben is in the second 5 IMHO and so is Bradshaw.

And you are right, Bradshaw doesn't have the same stats but he played a different game. What an arm. Both of them did what was needed to win games.

Bradshaw is a 4xSB Champion & 2xSB MVP! The #1 overall pick from Louisiana Tech was instrumental on those 4 SBs as well as keeping the Steelers in SB contention during his tenure.

He's definitely deserves to be in the top 10 hands down. C'mon now...how many of you guys here played any college or HS football? Most of you guys are runners - you know an awful lot about running. I played 4 yrs of Division I college football back in the early 80s & also played on a HS state championship football team. I also coached my son, who played QB in HS. I know a thing or two about this.

Sure, I played in high school. If Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions.

my goodness (new device) wrote:

Also loved Favre for that reason - getting so fcked up in his last game with the Vikings and just going back out there again and again. That grit. That really does count for something in a person's legacy IMO, and it's a point against Peyton and TB in my book. But still, doesn't get Ben over the hump.

Didn’t TB play a season with a torn ACL. And a deep cut in his hand in that one playoff game when he snagged it against someone’s helmet

Running back/sprinter here played 20 years organized football, not some little distance runner at all.

Saw Bradshaw play many times he pretty much sucked to be honest, way too many bad throws, made a lot of bad decisions, threw TONS of INT's, he has 4 rings because he played on a great team, on any other team we wouldn't be talking about him at all.

Terrible comp%/passer rating, TD/INT ratio, guy only played in three pro bowls.

Big Ben a far better QB, not close actually

1) Tom Brady

2) Joe Montana

3) Peyton Manning

Everyone else) Just argue. The top 3 are undeniable.

dafdf wrote:

Elway's stats were not better than Favre's. His stats, actually, seem pretty mediocre. He had a passer rating of 79.9 for his career and threw over 2 interceptions for every touchdown he threw.

You can't compare stats from different eras like that.

If Tom Brady played in the 80s he'd have quit after 3 games.

I've ben a 49er fan since 1959. Steve Young didn't have a great offensive line like Joe Montana did. Young was always running for his life. I'm not saying Young was better than Montana, but Young would have been even more impressive than he was if he had had good protection.

1-Tom Brady

2-Joe Montana

3-Peyton Manning

4-Aaron Rodgers

5-Dan Marino

6-Steve Young

7-John Elway

8-Drew Brees

9-Johnny Unitas

10-Terry Bradshaw

I don't think Big Ben makes the top twenty.

Let's do it by team

*** Hall of Fame

Steelers...Big Ben***

Ravens....Lamar Jackson

Browns....Otto Graham***

Bengals...Ken Anderson....Joe Burrow will pass him

Chargers....Philip Rivers

Raiders...The Snake***

Broncos...John Elway***

Chiefs....Patrick Mahomes

Pats....Tom Brady***

Jets....Joe Namath***

Bills....Jim Kelly***

Dolphins....Dan Marino***

Titans/Oilers...Warren Moon***

Colts....Peyton Manning***

Texans....Desuen Watson

Jags...Mark Brunell

Packers...Aaron Rodgers***

Lions....Matthew Stafford

Bears,,,,Sid Luckman***

Vikings....Fran Tarkenton***

Niners....Joe Montana***

Rams....Kurt Warner***

Seahawks....Russell Wilson***

Cards....Jim Hart

Cowboys....Roger Staubach***

Eagles....Donovan McNabb

Giants...Eli Manning???

Washington....Sonny Jurgenson***

Buc's....Vinny Testerverde

Panthers....Cam Newton

Falcons....Matt Ryan

Saints...Drew Brees***

Vineyard Vines wrote:

Vineyard Vines wrote:

Nah, Bart Starr has him beat at 104.8.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_rating_career_playoffs.htm

BTW the above link is pretty interesting. You see all the usual suspects. But cripes, Peyton Manning has a terrible passer rating of 87.4 in the playoffs, tied with his brother for crying out loud. Just shows what a massive choker Manning was in the playoffs. He couldn't win without a strong defense to bail them out of his boneheaded mistakes.

That list is crap. Nick Foles, Matt Ryan, and Alex Smith in the top 7 and Mark Sanchez at 11 shows that list is absolutely meaningless.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

It's already clear that Mahomes is a significantly better QB than Roethlisberger ever was. Ben is harder to bring down but Mahomes is better at everything else.

No question these 4 years from Mahomes are better than Ben's best 4. You'd probably put Mahomes at 7 if he has 5 solid, maybe not as good seasons from now. If he plays near his MVP form he approaches the top 4-5. I feel like in the greatest ever convo you need minimum 6-7 great year a la Young.I think Young was maybe better than Brees/Elway but I give them the nod on longevity.

Yes Mahomes is a better QB than Roethlisberger ever was. But there is no way that as of right now he is a greater QB than Ben. We need a little more than 4 years of Mahomes to get there. Now I fully expect this will happen but the discussion is for today and as of right now Mahomes is not even close to the top 10 in terms of greatness.

DinoZ wrote:

Running back/sprinter here played 20 years organized football, not some little distance runner at all.

Saw Bradshaw play many times he pretty much sucked to be honest, way too many bad throws, made a lot of bad decisions, threw TONS of INT's, he has 4 rings because he played on a great team, on any other team we wouldn't be talking about him at all.

Terrible comp%/passer rating, TD/INT ratio, guy only played in three pro bowls.

Big Ben a far better QB, not close actually

Also played HS football (not a runner). Watched plenty of football throughout the 70s and 80s.

Gonna have to agree with DinoZ. I don't think that Bradshaw is anywhere near top 10. Cannon of an arm. Strong and athletic. But a terrible decision maker who won SBs because those Pittsburgh teams had All-Pros and HOFers at damned near every position on both sides of the ball. Steelers teams from '75 to '80 were just ridiculous.

old guy 76 wrote:

I've ben a 49er fan since 1959. Steve Young didn't have a great offensive line like Joe Montana did. Young was always running for his life. I'm not saying Young was better than Montana, but Young would have been even more impressive than he was if he had had good protection.

1-Tom Brady

2-Joe Montana

3-Peyton Manning

4-Aaron Rodgers

5-Dan Marino

6-Steve Young

7-John Elway

8-Drew Brees

9-Johnny Unitas

10-Terry Bradshaw

I don't think Big Ben makes the top twenty.

Big Ben is head and shoulders better than Bradshaw and it isn't even close.

dafdf wrote:

Elway's stats were not better than Favre's. His stats, actually, seem pretty mediocre. He had a passer rating of 79.9 for his career and threw over 2 interceptions for every touchdown he threw.

It's true Elway's stats are not as good as other top 10 QBs, but who did he have to throw to or hand the ball to in his prime years? Did Elway's first 3 SB teams have a single all pro player on offense?

When he finially got some offensive support he won 2 SBs even though his skills had declined considerably.

I'm a Steeler fan, but, no, Big Ben is not a top 10 all-time. He's a HOF for sure, he's got great stats, but he wasn't even the MVP of either SB he won.

What Ben was the best at was taking hits and still making plays. When he was truly Big Ben, it took multiple guys to bring him down. He was tough, he was rugged, he was physical -- and all of those fit the Steelers' personality like no one else would have.

He hasn't been the same for a few years now, he's been a drama queen (or worse) at times, but he's given Steeler Nation a lot to cheer about for 18 years.