CA State Meet Saturday — How many Newbury Park boys can break the Woodward Park course record: 0, 1, 2, 3, or 4?

Newbury Park don’t seem to be the types to rock the Vapor Flys. They seem to love the Zoom Fly 4’s.

GBPUSD = 1.39 wrote:

perfect cell wrote:

The warmer weather slowed them down a bit. Not more than 10 seconds but enough to take away any chance at the CR. The top 3 are all very close to German level.

Also most underestimate Germans ability in high school. I think he is number two all time behind LV and tied with Ritz.

German's 14:24 Woodward is also probably the second greatest individual HS XC performance ever, behind Ritz's 14:10 MI state win. Other contenders are Craig Virgin's 13:50 (and LV's 13:53), Sarah Baxter's absurd 2012 NXN win, and Ritz and LV's 2000 and 2010 FL wins respectively...but 14:24 solo at Woodward is otherworldly.

some more modern ones for consideration, neither lv or virgin actually have the detweiller course record anymore, nico ran 14:28 solo allegedly “holding back” at woodward, and even better was his nxn win. 14+ seconds over one of the best fields of all time and a 7 second course record in the rain and mud.

GBPUSD = 1.39 wrote:

German's 14:24 Woodward is also probably the second greatest individual HS XC performance ever, behind Ritz's 14:10 MI state win. Other contenders are Craig Virgin's 13:50 (and LV's 13:53), Sarah Baxter's absurd 2012 NXN win, and Ritz and LV's 2000 and 2010 FL wins respectively...but 14:24 solo at Woodward is otherworldly.

Agree that 14:24 on WP's accurate 5k course with one big hill, a small hill, lots of twists and turns, and several surface changes is close to, if not equal to, Ritz's 14:10 on the superfast Michigan Speedway course.

Just a small nitpick correction . . . don't forget Josh Methner's 13:49/3 mile IL state win a couple years ago to break Craig's 13:50 Detweiller Park course record.

However, have to state that a select few vintage East Course courses -- such as Holmdel Hills/NJ and Wickham Park/CT -- are so hilly that time comparisons to flat courses like Michigan Speedway or Woodbridge/CA are pretty much impossible.

If Aaron Sahlman or the Young bros don't break German's record next year, have to believe that 14:24 will last a few more generations.

You are correct. Any coach can follow a decent college team on strava and copy it but they won't achieve what a team this loaded is doing. The same people gushing about his coaching are claiming that these runners will all be great in college but both can't be true.

Both the D4 1&2 finishers ran top 10 times. Nordenholz looked strong, and uh, like a very high testosterone runner.

Calabasa wrote:

I seem to recall it was mid 70s when German ran his record. Can anyone remember more accurately?

It was 2007.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Calabasa wrote:

I seem to recall it was mid 70s when German ran his record. Can anyone remember more accurately?

It was 2007.

I meant weather....

And it looks like it was mid 60s, not mid 70s.

GermanMissile wrote:

oldoldrunner wrote:

GF record stands. Sahlman almost did it. Yet another team record for NBP. Sixth runner 15:15 and seventh 15:40!

NBP: 14:26,14:28,14:30,14:46,15:11,15:15 and 15:40! Wow!!

Nobody breaks GF’s insane record, and Aaron Sahlman runs slower than his Clovis time, but Newbury Park breaks the State meet team points record (16), overall Woodward Park time record (73:23), and State meet margin-of-victory record (103 points over Great Oak).

Their team average time (14:41) was 10 seconds faster than any other boy ran on the course all day.

Lex, Leo, and Aaron still have 2022 to try to break the Fernandez record, but today further proved that it’s an absolute beast of a record.

“Margin of victory” record is kinda of odd. Wouldn’t it be more impressive if the margin of victory were lower? If your margin is really high, then it means you had softer competition.

Winning 16-39 is more impressive than 16-109.

Pretty sure he was referring to the the temperature.

zero FTW wrote:

I'm going to say zero. Nico and Daschbach were side by side the entire race in Clovis 2019, and didn't get it. Daschbach went sub-4 in track and Nico is who he is. I'm not saying there's no chance one or even more than one guy gets the record (there definitely is!), but German's record is straight up amazing. Will be fun to see tomorrow.

Btw, it's a different discussion, but German doing it solo was ridiculous regardless of what happens tomorrow! I honestly think he was the greatest US high school runner ever, regardless of what happens tomorrow or what guys like Verzbikas and others did.

I got Lucas just slightly ahead of Fernandez and Webb Due to being slightly better at everything on the track than german And his xc double was crazy.

unquestionably the best HS team of all time by a very wide margin.

Also note they scored 21 points in the combined overall scoring, merging all divisions.

Cross Country wrote:

German also wasn't racing in vaporflys.

Were these guys? Then I'm adding at least 10 seconds to the times.

Does Colin fit anywhere in the all time XC greats?

He came within 2s of German’s time

He ran faster than Nico did

Fernandez, LV, Ritz, ?

No particular order

Webb, Rupp, Virgin, Hunter, Nico, Chez, Lindgren, Kessler, Nelson, Pre, Ryun..,

Does he fit anywhere in the top 10?

slowerthanu wrote:

zero (0)

German Fernandez is the CA GOAT!

Nice!

rojo wrote:

Cross Country wrote:

German also wasn't racing in vaporflys.

Were these guys? Then I'm adding at least 10 seconds to the times.

Vaporflys are good, but I'd take spikes over vaporflys for cross country any day. In fact the Newbury boys were racing in spikes without the spikes screwed in because of California rules and the fact they had to run on concrete

birdbeard wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Some of you guys are obsessed with the effects of coaching but the NP kids would just as good at hundreds of other HSs. Their coach won the lottery twice to have such talented sets of brothers run there.

Do you really believe that? You think that a lot of coaches could score 16 points in the biggest division in the biggest state just because of the talent?

No chance. Brosnan seems like a huge douche but clearly has the coaching elements right.

Yup. It’s a bit of everything. He couldn’t have done it without the talent, but he’s also responsible for developing that talent. Brosnan has some weird god complex or is a sociopath or something along those lines but he’s chosen to direct all of that energy into coaching high school cross country. Without him, we wouldn’t have had the opportunity to witness this team. And next years team. It’s incredible stuff.

Iamspeed wrote:

rojo wrote:

Were these guys? Then I'm adding at least 10 seconds to the times.

Vaporflys are good, but I'd take spikes over vaporflys for cross country any day. In fact the Newbury boys were racing in spikes without the spikes screwed in because of California rules and the fact they had to run on concrete

A lot of kids did race in Vaporflys today, but Newbury Park did not. Looked like Nike XC racing flats.

chjjjbjkk wrote:

Does Colin fit anywhere in the all time XC greats?

He came within 2s of German’s time

He ran faster than Nico did

Fernandez, LV, Ritz, ?

No particular order

Webb, Rupp, Virgin, Hunter, Nico, Chez, Lindgren, Kessler, Nelson, Pre, Ryun..,

Does he fit anywhere in the top 10?

This brings up a good point. I wonder if Colin is kinda getting a raw deal by being on Newbury park's team. If some random kid from a no-name school had the same accomplishments and the times that Colin had he would certainly be heralded as one of the greatest high school talents. Instead he is just part of, or a product of, one of the greatest coaching talents in many peoples eyes, including my own. Which is weird because to me, Nico Young is clearly one of the greatest high school XC runners ever, and Sahlman doesn't even come to mind when I think of the greatest high school runners, even though sahlman ran faster than Nico on multiple courses, Woodbridge and now Woodword.

Actually I just realized he didn't go faster than nico at woodbridge, but he was sick or injured or something that week if I remember correctly, and since he has been faster than the youngs all season its safe to assume he could have gone faster than Nico's record if he were healthy that weekend.