If Kipchoge wins in 11 days, he’ll dethrone K.B. as the G.O.A.T. distance runner

Wise Old Man wrote:

Bekele was in his prime 2002-2009 and Kipchoge in his 2014-9. Maybe he’s not done, but probably he is. Kipchoge’s 5000 in 2003 and Bekele’s Berlin marathon in 2019 were outliers. Sure, it is more than fair to say what Bekele accomplished during his prime is more impressive than EK’s accomplishments during his, but this notion that KB beat EK while both were in their primes is flawed. Also, stop bean counting. You can’t wrack up as many major marathon wins as world cross and track wins, just not fair to use the win count as a marker of greatness. You can’t run more than two marathons/year.

OK you're just riding Kipchoges ****. You just cherrypicked the best stretch of his career as his prime. No ones real prime is in their 30s you're ridiculous. Bekele was better than EK. That's indisputable. EK beat Bekele ONCE in a major championship. End of story. He was not even close in any other championship. Bekele never had to lean on the line as EK when he won silver wasn't anywhere near him. In your approximation EK was an outlier in 03 but was not in his prime until 2014? That makes no sense. He has his best period from 2014-19 but that was NOT his physical prime.

Jesus, dude. How can you say that the last ~7 years were not the prime of Kipchoge’s career? It’s quite simple.

This.

KB greatest on track, EK in marathon.

Although the 2:01:41 was brilliant - one of the best race performances to watch, in my opinion - Kipchoge is to marathoning what Bolt was to sprinting.

kipchoges real period of form is between 2014-2019 he asically did nothing after his second to lagat in osaka he was good in the 2000s but he was never a dominant force in those times

I am not sure how it's possible to take someone with a running career of 18 years and dwarf him over someone whose career was six years.

Few will dispute that Michael Jordan is the GOAT in Basketball.

His shot percentage was mediocre.

His free throw percentage was eh.

His assist count was low for a shooting guard or a small forward.

People could cherry pick what they want.

Jordan defined basketball and the masses flocked to it because of his finesse and intangibles and visibility.

The NBA was defined by Michael Jordan.

There is no doubt that Kenenisa Bekele could beat Eliud Kipchoge in his prime.

But Kipchoge has crossed many distances and has achieved times in feats that make the sport visibly global.

For this reason, the GOAT is clearly Kipchoge and it's not really a close race.

The Ineos 1:59 event transcended the sport like no other event in its history. It was mainstream news everywhere.

That said, I hope EK does well in Sapporo though I'm cautiously putting 💰 on Lawrence Cherono because, you know, Father Time remains unbeaten.

I'm actually disappointed by how affected a lot of you guys are by the post-INEOS media hype around Kipchoge. Bekele has: better PRs, WAY more global titles, dominated both the track and XC and still one of the best road runners ever, he's more versatile, has more WRs and is also more talented. Kipchoge could be #3 at the distance running list OAT (#1 at marathon). Two more things: in what way is a WMM win comparable to an Olympic gold? Olympics is the most prestigious event in sports full stop, and only happen every four years while WMMs happen several times each year. WMMs are more like DLs in competetiveness but ofc harder to rack up as you can't race the marathon too frequently.

And I also heavily disagree that marathon wins carry more weight than the 10k. Both are incredibly prestigious events at Olympics, and at World Champs the 10k is arguably more prestigious, the marathon fields are often a bit thinner and less stacked. Kipchoge is one of the greatest runners ever, but Bekele is two levels above him and is the GOAT.

GOAT cross-country - Kenenisa Bekele. Number 2 is Tergat. Bekele dominated it like no other and Tergat is a clear second as the most dominant before Bekele.

GOAT track - Bekele. Number 2 is Haile followed by Farah. Bekele is clear of Haile. He broke his records and also doubled in championships whereas Haile only ever doubled once. If we were talking 10000 only, Haile would be GOAT.

GOAT Half marathon - Tadese. Number 2 Kamworor.

GOAT Marathon - Kipchoge. You could make a case for a number of guys to be distant second.

bcun g wrote:

Dude, sorry, but KB will always be GOAT. Close second is Haile or Komen but certainly not Kipchoge.

Co-sign.

DEE90 wrote:

bcun g wrote:

Dude, sorry, but KB will always be GOAT. Close second is Haile or Komen but certainly not Kipchoge.

Co-sign.

Geb, sure. Komen has no argument. He has one world medal and was good for about 2 years, and even during that time Geb was the better runner.

OP is a marathon fetishist. Kipchoge is nowhere near Bekele. One global gold on track and XC. ONE. He is not in the discussion.

Cheptegei breaking Bekele’s records doesn’t add to Kipchoge’s accomplishments.

If Kipchoge broke the 5 and 10 records, it would be a different story.

I have no issue calling Kipchoge the greatest marathoner ever.

If he wins here, it only makes it harder to surpass.

Jimmy Alberione wrote:

GOAT cross-country - Kenenisa Bekele. Number 2 is Tergat. Bekele dominated it like no other and Tergat is a clear second as the most dominant before Bekele.

GOAT track - Bekele. Number 2 is Haile followed by Farah. Bekele is clear of Haile. He broke his records and also doubled in championships whereas Haile only ever doubled once. If we were talking 10000 only, Haile would be GOAT.

GOAT Half marathon - Tadese. Number 2 Kamworor.

GOAT Marathon - Kipchoge. You could make a case for a number of guys to be distant second.

Looking just at their track results, Haile definitely is number 1. Better PBs, 4 world indoor titles, better win/loss record...

Nope. The depth of the Olympic Marathon doesn't come close to depth of olympic track events.

I'd say a WMM win/podium > Olympic marathon win/podium > WC Marathon podium/win.

And for the all time rankings: Goat distance runner is still Bekele in my opinion. Dominated the world in XC and Track, held 2 WRs for a long time, 2nd fastest marathon ever.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Let’s also not forget 2007 in Mombasa. Sorry, but that race comes to mind as much as many of his wins, maybe more. That has always been a dark mark on his goat status. I always got the vibe that when the going got too tough for KB, he just dns, dnfs.

Let’s not forget Kipchoge reduced to a jello-legged walk by the GOAT in St Galmier in 2005

5k runner wrote:

Nope. The depth of the Olympic Marathon doesn't come close to depth of olympic track events.

I'd say a WMM win/podium > Olympic marathon win/podium > WC Marathon podium/win.

And for the all time rankings: Goat distance runner is still Bekele in my opinion. Dominated the world in XC and Track, held 2 WRs for a long time, 2nd fastest marathon ever.

Yeah, I think the marathon is still somewhat of a speciality event. The same goes for XC. I know people will disagree but I don't think anyone can be the distance GOAT if they were never the best in the world at the 5k and 10k on the track. Those are the core distance events that everyone runs in their career. Why did Kipchoge move to the marathon in the first place? Because that's where he could dominate? If his prime started in 2013 why wouldn't he stay on the track and win there against Farah?

Kipchoge is the marathon GOAT by a wide margin but it's not enough to crown him distance GOAT.

Come on folks, you have to put some parameters around "GOAT discussion" first. You say "distance GOAT", but what does that mean? In Olympic/WC events between 1500M and marathon? Ok, what about cross country then? It has a world championship but no Olympics. Is it part of "distance GOAT" or not?

Secondly, is winning the biggest races (Oly/WC) the most important, or is it setting records?

If you include XC and consider winning to be paramount, then how in the hell would anyone argue against KB? It's not even close when you count up Gold medals.

If you exclude XC, then it gets more interesting, because I think Mo Farah has a good claim based on winning the biggest races, but still you also have KB, Geb, and Kipchoge (we have to call WMM as medals I think).

If you talk less about winning the biggest races and more about the fastest times over a wide range of distances, then we have all of the above (except Farah) but plus Aiouta at least ... but Geb had so many more from 3:31 1500 indoors to setting marathon world record multiple times, and EVERYTHING in between.

KB at one time was indisputably the best on the track at his peak, he was also indisputably the best XC racer of all time at his peak, and in spite of it all, he has the second fastest marathon and also a 2:03 flat that was only 5 or 6 seconds off the then world record.

El G doesn't even register because he was a 1500 guy that did a couple of 3000 and 5000, albeit at a pretty high level. He probably had the talent to be WR holder in all three of those distances had he put more effort in the late 90s.

If Kipchoge runs something like NYC, in 2:05 or better, then he's the marathon GOAT.

Otherwise, no.

I don't mean to crap on your conversation, but most top marathoners these days were not top track guys first. KB and Kipchoge (and also Rupp and Farah) are hold outs from a by-gone age.

That's not to say the current crop of guys "couldn't" be great at track, they just never tried. Even Wanjiru with his WJR in the 10000 was not a track guy. He had like a 13:18 5k PR and never ran track as an "adult." Thinking of the last 10 years, we have Wilson Kipsang, Patrick Makau, G. and E. Mutai, Kebede, Desisa, and so many young 203 and 204 guys I can't even keep track now. As far as I know, none had track results of note.