Ross Tucker thoughts RE Shelby Houlihan

If tainted meat is known to be such a problem, and athletes know they are responsible for what they put into their bodies, then why are they getting their food from random food trucks on the side of the road?

Does anyone actually believe any Olympic level athlete would eat anything from a food truck. Even the hobby joggers carefully measure and weigh their meals for the day. No way they eating greasy pork burritos on the side of the road.

Ingestion of non‐castrated pig offal

"Notwithstanding some reports suggesting a link existing between the consumption of meat contaminated by residual hormonal treatment and potential positive tests, it is generally regarded as highly improbable since residues in meat, when measured, are very low; there is no indication that such a case happened."

from the British Journal of Sports Medicine, Significance of 19-norandrosterone in athletes' urine samples (Jul 2006)

Short of an admission, there is no way to know exactly what happened. But, given the fact that she acknowledges that she did not even consume pork, and that the CAS heard her appeal and did not even reduce her penalty from the maximum punishment, I think you'd have to be pretty naive to assume her innocence in the court of public opinion.

It's too bad, particularly because of the doubt it casts on the rest of the BTC athletes, but as a lifelong fan of the TdF, I've been burned wayyyyyyy too many times assuming the innocence of my favourite endurance athletes. It doesn't mean I don't enjoy cycling and track still, just that I don't put my unwavering faith in people I have never met and who prove to be fallible time after time.

Found this research study online.

States that pregnant women can have up to 15 ng/ml

Also in those cases (below) ingested pig offal (hard to find) some cases were up to 176 ng/ml

Shelby's is 5 ng/ml

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2657496/

Ingestion of non‐castrated pig offal

Notwithstanding some reports suggesting a link existing between the consumption of meat contaminated by residual hormonal treatment and potential positive tests,67,68 it is generally regarded as highly improbable since residues in meat, when measured, are very low; there is no indication that such a case happened.50,51

19‐nortestosterone, the 17β‐isomer, is present in the intact boar. A first report described the ingestion of a substantial amount of non‐castrated pig meat (375 g) resulting in the excretion of 19‐norandrosterone in amounts reaching 3–7.5 ppb in the following hours.69 Another study confirmed that in spite of interindividual differences, 19‐NA and 19‐NE were always measured in specimens provided in the hours following the improbable ingestion (non‐castrated pig meat being difficult to find) of such meat‐rich meal composed of non‐castrated pig tissues, with levels even reaching 160 ng/ml in one case. No trace of norsteroid metabolites was found in urine samples collected before or after the ingestion of castrated pig edible parts. As expected, the GC/C/IRMS analysis confirmed endogenous‐like 13C/12C value of metabolites.70

I find it interesting that testing seems unable to differentiate between natural pig hormones and presumably synthetic hormones.

Are they that identical?

If a Kenyan athlete was banned under the exact same circumstances as Houlihan the US distance running community would applaud the anti doping agency's for rooting out a drug cheat. They then would say that this is also evidence of systematic doping in Kenya and place suspect on all Kenyan results. Houlihan tests positive and the US running community says she is innocent and the anti doping system failed. The hypocrisy is appalling.

the shoes? wrote:

Who is this Tucker fellow, and why should anyone care what he thinks???

Evidently, Tucker fails to discuss the real problem here, let alone discuss it. The REAL PROBLEM here is that WADA has evidently set such arbitrarily low limits in their drug detection, that ingestion of the food supply can trigger them.

If there is going to be discussion on this topic, then the facts surrounding these WADA limits, and what is the minimal amount of food ingestion that triggers these limits, needs to clearly be presented to the public, if the public is expected to watch this 'sport'. Otherwise, the public is justified in tuning this sham of a show out completely.

Athletes get off the hook entirely, or get reduced violations for the "incidental contamination" all the time. Countless examples. The panel had convincing evidence in this case, and rejected her appeal entirely. Thus suggests very high confidence.

This is being spun masterfully by Shelby's PR team. They struck first on the narrative, and tons of people have taken it hook line and sinker. We haven't seen any specific details from CAS about specific values. I'm sure a detailed report will be released.

olyrun wrote:

If a Kenyan athlete was banned under the exact same circumstances as Houlihan the US distance running community would applaud the anti doping agency's for rooting out a drug cheat. They then would say that this is also evidence of systematic doping in Kenya and place suspect on all Kenyan results. Houlihan tests positive and the US running community says she is innocent and the anti doping system failed. The hypocrisy is appalling.

Go kill some time reading the "Poll: Do you believe Shelby Houlihan is guilty or not?" thread and you'll see how wrong you are in lashing out at the "US running community" . There's a handful of people who fan the flames of this, all the rest of the posters think she's guilty. It's overwhelming how one-sided the numbers are. I'm white, I'm american, I think she's guilty. Stop trying to use misinformation to push your agenda.

For the record I also think Jerry S is full of it trying to convince people he's never heard of nandrolone. He needs to go for his part in the denial even if he didn't know she was taking it.

She got banned for 4 years after an appeal. She’s guilty. Move on. She doesn’t get a pass because she’s American, even though we’re the only ones who tend to claim contaminated meat.

Agree with others that Jerry's claim to have never heard of nandrolone is just plain bizarre. Butch Reynolds, Linford Christie, Merlene Ottey, Mark Richardson, Dougie Walker, Dieter Baumann, etc. Geez, even Pep Guardiola tested positive! I guess it's more associated with sprinters and the 90s, but still.

In the early 2000s, UK Athletics cleared several athletes who had tested positive for nandrolone, arguing that the substance could be produced naturally via legal supplements, but the IAAF didn't buy it.

https://www.theguardian.com/observer/sport/story/0,6903,348569,00.html

If you buy the BTC's defense of Shelby, should we also conclude that some / all of these athletes may been falsely accused?

the reaction to this is super absurd

very suspicious progression in mid 20s

failed test

severe ban

ridiculous excuse

"never heard of nandralone"

all of this is pointing very hard in one direction, and the desire to defend the athlete is pure homerism

jahangir khan wrote:

the reaction to this is super absurd

very suspicious progression in mid 20s

failed test

severe ban

ridiculous excuse

"never heard of nandralone"

all of this is pointing very hard in one direction, and the desire to defend the athlete is pure homerism

2020 14:23.92 Jesuit High School Track, Portland, OR (USA) 10 JUL 2020

2019 15:15.50 Drake Stadium, Des Moines, IA (USA) 28 JUL 2019

2018 14:34.45 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 21 JUL 2018

2017 15:00.37 Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 10 AUG 2017

2016 15:06.14 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 10 JUL 2016

2015 15:49.72 Eugene, OR (USA) 13 JUN 2015

2014 16:11.63 Pullman, WA (USA) 18 MAY 2014

2013 16:15.85 Los Angeles, CA (USA) 12 MAY 2013

And she eats from some roadside greasy food truck. Yeah right.

Oh, the shoes, read the reports when they come out. And when you are it, read about how WADA and CAS was developed and by who. It might shed some light. But obviously, WADA and CAS did not believe the story about the burrito. Reading his site, Ross Tucker has a PhD in Exercise Physiology. Hmm, he might know a bit about how an athlete's body works.

Yes. To add: CAS unanimously did not buy the contamination theory of 10 oz uncastrated boar in her regular beef burrito.

Unanimously. Let's recall that both AIU and the athlete's team chose one arbitrator each. So, even the arbitrator hand-picked by Nike's lawyers did not fall for that crazy story.

And not just boar - boar offal.

You ever try to eat 10oz of pork offal? Start with an ounce and see if you would have finished that burrito.

To be fair not sure it needs to be 10 oz as the studies are tested at 24 hours - Houlihan claims to have been tested 10 hours after ingestion.

The problem is still the fact that consuming uncastrated pork is extremely unlikely. I’m sure they could track down the vans supplier, which given that this hasn’t been mentioned, probably means it was looked into and everything looked normal.

Houlihan may or may not be clean. Her 5000m progression is staggering given that there are two huge improvements and further smaller ones.

If she is clean the nandrolone must have come from somewhere else that she is unaware of. This is probably why she has been banned after appeal as the burrito argument is ridiculous.

wisenitwit wrote:

Houlihan may or may not be clean. Her 5000m progression is staggering given that there are two huge improvements and further smaller ones.

Why would you believe that?

The American record for 5000 is weak. But to you people it's impossibly strong.

Guys she already admitted she ate there all the time. Which means she could have potentially tested positive multiple times. Which also means she could have been doping for years.

Did you miss the part where I said that the American record for 5000 is weak?