To all of you who have been saying the super spikes don't work, did you see that? 10 guys just broke the NCAA meet record. LOL.

I posted on another thread about the spikes being faster but nothing like what some of you think they are. Its quite easy to explain the fast times tonight, 10 guys were still in the race with 800 to go. The race was paced and had great weather, shoes def help but not 30 plus seconds like some of you claim. The real magic is in what it allows the runners to close the end of the race in due to the spikes feeling very cushioned. No way I am giving them 3-5 seconds a mile for all the miles. In a 10k Ill give them that much for the final 2 miles due to the spikes keeping your legs fresher longer. There is no propulsion feeling like the high stack carbon road racing shoes. Kiptoo is the real hero and a big part of the fast times tonight too bad he could not keep it up at the end. Guess the super spikes don't work for him.

It's getting to the point of embarrassing the lengths that people are willing to go to deny the benefit of these "super-spikes". It's pretty clear and obvious:

- Two women shattering the 10k WR days apart, both running 25-30 seconds faster than doped up Junxia.

- 10 athletes all going under the same 42 year old NCAA 10k meet record

- 3 women going 14:13-14:15 at the Ethiopian trials.

I am sure there are more examples but I am not as up-to-date as I used to be.

The arguments for the 10k men running fast include:

- The athletes train hard. No doubt, but they always have. These guys aren't doing anything groundbreaking.

- The weather was nice: It was indeed, which led to faster times. There are plenty of races with ideal conditions but 10 guys breaking the meet record?

- There was a front-runner hammering: Then why didn't more of the field blow up?

These all contributed towards a faster time, but the spikes were the larger distinguishing factor. Times are being slashed across the globe and it's not because athletes are training exponentially harder than before, in ideal weather, or due to a front-runner. The drastic time drops occurring at the same time is due to the same variable: technological advancement. In this case - spikes.

With that said, technological advancement has always been part of our sport: Track surfaces, light/responsive spikes, training shoes, starting blocks, etc.

The older generation needs to remember that technological advancement has and will be a key part of the sport. No matter what age you got into the sport, you were likely the recipient of a technological advantage over the generation before you. There will be more once you're done with the sports.

Meanwhile, current athletes need to curb their delusion in acting as though these spikes don't offer the significant advantage they do.

It's also held when the weather is hot and at the end of the season

It isn't all the spikes. There will also be other technology at play.

Yes, the meet record was a little soft and yet normally people don't go for a fast one and yes the weather is normal hotter. So what.

Did you guys not read our recap? In a normal year, if you add up all of the Stanford and Mt SAC 10,000S, THERE ARE HARDLY ANY SUB-28S. The NCAA records only go back to 2010. From 2010 to 2021, we had a total of 11 guys break 28:00 for 10,000 in the NCAA total for all races. We had 10 do it in one race and 13 in one year.

We had 10 in one race and 14 this year in the NCAA.

Sub-28:00’s by year in the NCAA, 2010-2021

2021: 13

2020:0

2019: 0

2018: 0

2017: 0

2016: 1

2015: 1

2014: 2

2013: 1

2012: 3

2011: 2

2010: 1

IllinoisRunner wrote:

As others have said, the meet record is relatively weak because championship 10ks tend to be tactical. Has there been a single past NCAA 10k where someone committed to pushing the pace and towing the field along like Kiptoo did? It's misleading to compare the times from an essentially rabbited race in perfect conditions to past jogfests.

Agreed. About 40 seconds still behind the CR despite all the great factors (pacing, shoes, placebo effect, weather, confluence of quality runners, etc). It’s like the Olympics. Many HS kids have run faster than Centro’s Rio win. World records are rare in the distances in the Olympics, even fast times are often rare. It’s running to win medals. Kiptoo changed that and, for once, everyone knew it was coming. You had to run a fast race to medal, and it was known many months in advance. Still they would have been 250++ meters behind the CR which was run in un-super shoes! So there was a pack, in great conditions, 40 seconds behind Chelanga. Wow?

Hey Rojo that is the kind of thing I would post.

Prepare to be assailed!😂

rojo wrote:

Yes, the meet record was a little soft and yet normally people don't go for a fast one and yes the weather is normal hotter. So what.

Did you guys not read our recap? In a normal year, if you add up all of the Stanford and Mt SAC 10,000S, THERE ARE HARDLY ANY SUB-28S. The NCAA records only go back to 2010. From 2010 to 2021, we had a total of 11 guys break 28:00 for 10,000 in the NCAA total for all races. We had 10 do it in one race and 13 in one year.

We had 10 in one race and 14 this year in the NCAA.

Sub-28:00’s by year in the NCAA, 2010-2021

2021: 13

2020:0

2019: 0

2018: 0

2017: 0

2016: 1

2015: 1

2014: 2

2013: 1

2012: 3

2011: 2

2010: 1

What’s your point? So they trained harder and faster than anyone else before them. So what

10 guys did not break the record. The first guy who crossed the line broke the record. The next 9 guys did not break the new record that had just been set by the first guy.

LMAO it’s analogous to one part of my analysis of Demerritt 12.80.

Surely you can bring more to bear on this, more firepower.

you sir are an idiot wrote:

Let it Rupp wrote:

You also have to consider that 2018 didn't really have a lot of quality runners in the field. Kiprop, who got 2nd in the 10k that year, got 14th this year running a faster time. The quality of the fields this year are just good, why can't people see that XD

2018 had Matt Baxter, Tyler Day, CONNER MANTZ AND CLAYTON YOUNG, Robert Brandt, and other talented guys.

In 2021 it's safe to say most of the favorite choked and the results were still insane. Kurgat DNF, Kiptoo and Kiprop got dropped, Wildschut barely scored. A no-name won, and a random kid from Colorado state was 5th.

in 2018, Tyler Day was ranked first with a 28:04, this year that time would have put him 6th. It's safe to say this year's field was better.

Why is it only the NCAA runners that have way more fast people? In the world this year 6 guys are under 27:00. Not much more than historical numbers. In 2011 there were 16 guys under 27:00. So 13 NCAA runners are less than a minute off of the 6th best guy in the world. How often does that happen? The NCAA is crazy fast this year when compared to the rest of the world. The world leading 1500 is 3:30 right now, we've got like 15 NCAA athletes 3:38 or better. When was the last time the NCAA had 15 guys within 7 or 8 seconds from the world leading 1500 meter time???

The year off from racing for NCAA athletes was HUGE and then you also have VERY OLD NCAA athletes now since everyone who was supposed to graduate last year is still running. Four of the 10 who broke 28 yesterday were supposed to be graduated last year. And then how often do NCAA athletes run in a 10,000 meter race in champion season where they have a pacer (Kiptoo) who takes them through 5k in sub 14??? Don't tell me that Ches/Tiernan and many others in the past decade couldn't have run sub 28 at the NCAA championships if someone would have taken out the pace in sub 14.

I couldn’t agree more. Those spikes are worth .25-1 second per lap. And, yes, El G would have run 3:25 flat, just behind Jim Ryun :-)

Most pro athletes don't have a full XC, indoor and spring outdoor seasons to run before the summer.

+1

Happy that someone else is looking at this rationally.

rojo wrote:

Yes, the meet record was a little soft and yet normally people don't go for a fast one and yes the weather is normal hotter. So what.

Did you guys not read our recap? In a normal year, if you add up all of the Stanford and Mt SAC 10,000S, THERE ARE HARDLY ANY SUB-28S. The NCAA records only go back to 2010. From 2010 to 2021, we had a total of 11 guys break 28:00 for 10,000 in the NCAA total for all races. We had 10 do it in one race and 13 in one year.

We had 10 in one race and 14 this year in the NCAA.

Sub-28:00’s by year in the NCAA, 2010-2021

2021: 13

2020:0

2019: 0

2018: 0

2017: 0

2016: 1

2015: 1

2014: 2

2013: 1

2012: 3

2011: 2

2010: 1

Rojo,

Have you tried out the spikes yourself? I ask because I thought it was the spikes too. But then I tried them out and I thought they were fine but they didn't feel revolutionary. They feel a little awkward. I wasn't noticing the bounce that I did in the vaporflys. Maybe I'm a rare case but I know multiple people that don't like these shoes. Starting to think there might be some other factors.

Yep, 10 runners just blasted a 10k faster at the ncaa meet than any single collegiate EVER! Nothing to see here. Just plain ol’ hard work and a can-do attitude. Move along to the next record. Just make sure the entire field is decked out in the latest “gear” from nike and adidas otherwise we might get so-so times. Get it? Gear!?

Oh, and the winner pr’d 47 seconds from his 28:28 that he ran in regular spikes two months ago. What a payoff! 47 seconds just by switching shoes.

gotta admit the data is super compelling.

this kind of jump in all the distances means a game changer occurred obviously.

have to admit that covid and training seems secondary to the spikes.

rojo, why don't you get in shape, (if you're not), do some speed work and test the spikes yourself.?

same as PEDs, if you have somebody to consult with that did EPO, HGH, test, peptides, etc.

then you can comment at a higher level.

i mean the blight of thinking is people comment without direct experience,

they want to reset the records,

for the new era. where a 28 is now a 27.

no question.

you will have females running 10k in 28x soon and for sure.

and they all will be hopped up one way or another, shoes, tracks, training novelties, and the vitamin kit.

with the shoes, if the stride is better, more natural, and there are less injuries, then they stay.

i love a good pair of shoes, love.

sadly back in the day, 9/10 shoes sucked in my experience.

NIKE waffle originals were among the worst.

Bowerman and his "brain trust" did not have a clue about running at the end of the day.

a myth, a joke more than a reality.