British Guy wrote:
I'm calling BS on this thread. My marathon PB is quite a lot faster than that and it would be physically impossible for me to run so many miles so fast.
I never ran a marathon but my PRs for indicated I could have run close to 2:20 and I never could have run 85 miles a week at 6-minute pace. A few days would be fine but I don't think I could have kept recovering enough in 24 hours to keep it going.
This is just an extreme example of how most hobby joggers train.
British Guy wrote:
Sorry if it sounds blunt or rude, but I'm 15-20 seconds faster per mile, so if he's wearing VF's his 6:00 pace is like me doing 5:50. The fastest I've ever gone outside of a session is averaging 6:25 and that was a tempo run for the last few miles, would've seriously struggled to do that 2 days in a row. So you're telling me this guy runs the equivalent of 35 seconds per mile faster on EVERY run AND he's averaged at least 86 MPW... assuming he has at least the ocassional easier week he's doing 90+ most weeks, so 13 miles a day at that pace, so he's pretty much running a half marathon at all-out race effort every day for a year... no chance!
He does not have an "easier week" really. He basically runs between 82-95 miles per week depending on his long run. Almost robotic. Same two or three courses, one has a decent amount of elevation. I think his typical runs are between 11-12 miles per day, and then the occasional long run (usually around 18). He does not double. His 95 mile week, his highest week of the year, he had a 20x400 repeat session where he averaged 72s with with a 400 jog rest. It looked like the on intervals were slightly downhill(-21 ft) and the jog back was slightly up hill (+21 ft).
I want to clarify too, he has averaged UNDER 6 minute pace, not 6 minute pace. I'd bet it's about 5:57 pace based on the runs I usually see (between 5:51 and 6:08 on a given day). His HM PR is around 73 minutes, which means he's not running all out technically, since his half PR is probably around 5:35 pace or something. For those of you who don't believe this guy exists, it's pretty clear he's much faster than his marathon suggests. Why does he routinely underperform over the distance? It's a mystery. I will say that he does not have a coach and his PRs aren't very impressive across the board. He's pretty young which might explain how he's able to handle the workload the way he does.
Seppo Kaitenenn wrote:
This is just an extreme example of how most hobby joggers train.
Yeah, it's kind of baffling this guy has to run everything so fast. He runs completely alone every day. I assume because he can't find anybody willing to run that fast. It would be interesting to see what would happen if he started running easier and doing more workouts.
How do you know he has run over 4500 miles, and he averages under 6 min pace?
Does he post all his training online, like on Strava?
If so, there might be some GPS inaccuracy going on here. He might also be posting other activities (bicycle rides, electric skateboard or other) as runs.
That said, I believe its totally possible for a fit 25 year old with a half marathon pr of 72 ish to run 12 miles a day at a pace around 30 sec per mile slower than their half pace. Especially if he is underperforming in his races. There are lots of runners that run almost all their miles at steady state too fast for them, do not vary their training, and that may care more about their training than their race results or potential.
There seem to be two types of people on this thread.
1) This is how hobby joggers train.
2) This may be a dumb way to train but this person is obviously way faster than this or this post is BS.
I am in camp number 2.
sled puller wrote:
How do you know he has run over 4500 miles, and he averages under 6 min pace?
Does he post all his training online, like on Strava?
If so, there might be some GPS inaccuracy going on here. He might also be posting other activities (bicycle rides, electric skateboard or other) as runs.
That said, I believe its totally possible for a fit 25 year old with a half marathon pr of 72 ish to run 12 miles a day at a pace around 30 sec per mile slower than their half pace. Especially if he is underperforming in his races. There are lots of runners that run almost all their miles at steady state too fast for them, do not vary their training, and that may care more about their training than their race results or potential.
I see him come up on my strava every day. No skateboarding or kayaking seen. He only runs.
I think you are pretty much hitting the nail on the head with him. He's obsessed with running sub 6 minute pace and showing up his statistics. Does not translate to races unfortunately.
highhoppingworm wrote:
There seem to be two types of people on this thread.
1) This is how hobby joggers train.
2) This may be a dumb way to train but this person is obviously way faster than this or this post is BS.
I am in camp number 2.
I agree. Don't know how he isn't faster. I don't understand how he isn't at least a sub 2:30 marathoner or something.
Do you know for sure he's doing all of his runs in next%s? Or is that going by his Strava?
Because I know a ton of people who do not keep accurate account of their shoes on Strava since adding new ones requires going to the desktop version and is too annoying for them. People with 5700 miles logged on Brooks Ghosts or Hoka Cliftons or whatever because they added a single pair 3 years ago and never kept it up to date.
WinnytheBish wrote:
British Guy wrote:
Sorry if it sounds blunt or rude, but I'm 15-20 seconds faster per mile, so if he's wearing VF's his 6:00 pace is like me doing 5:50. The fastest I've ever gone outside of a session is averaging 6:25 and that was a tempo run for the last few miles, would've seriously struggled to do that 2 days in a row. So you're telling me this guy runs the equivalent of 35 seconds per mile faster on EVERY run AND he's averaged at least 86 MPW... assuming he has at least the ocassional easier week he's doing 90+ most weeks, so 13 miles a day at that pace, so he's pretty much running a half marathon at all-out race effort every day for a year... no chance!
He does not have an "easier week" really. He basically runs between 82-95 miles per week depending on his long run. Almost robotic. Same two or three courses, one has a decent amount of elevation. I think his typical runs are between 11-12 miles per day, and then the occasional long run (usually around 18). He does not double. His 95 mile week, his highest week of the year, he had a 20x400 repeat session where he averaged 72s with with a 400 jog rest. It looked like the on intervals were slightly downhill(-21 ft) and the jog back was slightly up hill (+21 ft).
I want to clarify too, he has averaged UNDER 6 minute pace, not 6 minute pace. I'd bet it's about 5:57 pace based on the runs I usually see (between 5:51 and 6:08 on a given day). His HM PR is around 73 minutes, which means he's not running all out technically, since his half PR is probably around 5:35 pace or something. For those of you who don't believe this guy exists, it's pretty clear he's much faster than his marathon suggests. Why does he routinely underperform over the distance? It's a mystery. I will say that he does not have a coach and his PRs aren't very impressive across the board. He's pretty young which might explain how he's able to handle the workload the way he does.
If that's the case then surely this guy has the potential to be AT LEAST sub-elite if his body can handle that kind of stress. I wouldn't be able to run anywhere near that pace for that distance for more than maybe 3 days max. This guy is some sort of genetic freak and is obviously wasting his talent with improper training.
British Guy wrote:
WinnytheBish wrote:
He does not have an "easier week" really. He basically runs between 82-95 miles per week depending on his long run. Almost robotic. Same two or three courses, one has a decent amount of elevation. I think his typical runs are between 11-12 miles per day, and then the occasional long run (usually around 18). He does not double. His 95 mile week, his highest week of the year, he had a 20x400 repeat session where he averaged 72s with with a 400 jog rest. It looked like the on intervals were slightly downhill(-21 ft) and the jog back was slightly up hill (+21 ft).
I want to clarify too, he has averaged UNDER 6 minute pace, not 6 minute pace. I'd bet it's about 5:57 pace based on the runs I usually see (between 5:51 and 6:08 on a given day). His HM PR is around 73 minutes, which means he's not running all out technically, since his half PR is probably around 5:35 pace or something. For those of you who don't believe this guy exists, it's pretty clear he's much faster than his marathon suggests. Why does he routinely underperform over the distance? It's a mystery. I will say that he does not have a coach and his PRs aren't very impressive across the board. He's pretty young which might explain how he's able to handle the workload the way he does.
If that's the case then surely this guy has the potential to be AT LEAST sub-elite if his body can handle that kind of stress. I wouldn't be able to run anywhere near that pace for that distance for more than maybe 3 days max. This guy is some sort of genetic freak and is obviously wasting his talent with improper training.
Also, if his long run is still done at sub-6 pace, then he IS going all-out race effort for his long run.
WinnytheBish wrote:
Seppo Kaitenenn wrote:
This is just an extreme example of how most hobby joggers train.
Yeah, it's kind of baffling this guy has to run everything so fast. He runs completely alone every day. I assume because he can't find anybody willing to run that fast. It would be interesting to see what would happen if he started running easier and doing more workouts.
What's interesting to me is how fast a person that is strong enough to train like that can run a marathon, rather than whether it's a good idea. It's similar to what Nenow used to do, so it might be effective.
I think I know who this guy is, I almost started a thread on him myself after he crushed one of my Strava KOMs in the middle of a long run a few months ago. I thought he was faking it by biking his segments at first, but turns out he's a legit runner. 8-20 miles at sub 6 minute pace, several days a week. Insane. A couple of solid PRs, but mostly pretty inconsistent race results considering what he does in training.
OP, is this guy a recent Ivy grad?
On topic wrote:
Do you know for sure he's doing all of his runs in next%s? Or is that going by his Strava?
Because I know a ton of people who do not keep accurate account of their shoes on Strava since adding new ones requires going to the desktop version and is too annoying for them. People with 5700 miles logged on Brooks Ghosts or Hoka Cliftons or whatever because they added a single pair 3 years ago and never kept it up to date.
He alternates between multiple pairs of Next% shoes. Also, every time I've seen him running, which is roughly once every two weeks he is wearing them. I've seen it with my own eyes.
British Guy wrote:
British Guy wrote:
If that's the case then surely this guy has the potential to be AT LEAST sub-elite if his body can handle that kind of stress. I wouldn't be able to run anywhere near that pace for that distance for more than maybe 3 days max. This guy is some sort of genetic freak and is obviously wasting his talent with improper training.
Also, if his long run is still done at sub-6 pace, then he IS going all-out race effort for his long run.
Based on his heart rate data, he is running just as hard on his 12 milers as he is on his 18 milers. His 18 milers are somewhat slower than average. Those are usually the runs done around 6:08ish pace. His regular days are around 5:51-6:01. He does not do a long run every single week. Probably once or twice a month.
I did see he ran one 18 miler at low 5:40s pace now that I went back and looked. Heart rate was certainly a little higher for that one..lol although still in the tempo range.
MP all day every day wrote:
I think I know who this guy is, I almost started a thread on him myself after he crushed one of my Strava KOMs in the middle of a long run a few months ago. I thought he was faking it by biking his segments at first, but turns out he's a legit runner. 8-20 miles at sub 6 minute pace, several days a week. Insane. A couple of solid PRs, but mostly pretty inconsistent race results considering what he does in training.
OP, is this guy a recent Ivy grad?
Based on the mileage, this isn't the same guy. This guy doesn't run 8 or 20 milers. Double digits in singles every day.
No solid PRs really and he doesn't really attack segments as there is a post-collegiate group that trains nearby and has most of the KOMs.
I'm not sure where he went to College, so maybe. Still don't think this is the same guy.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
WinnytheBish wrote:
Yeah, it's kind of baffling this guy has to run everything so fast. He runs completely alone every day. I assume because he can't find anybody willing to run that fast. It would be interesting to see what would happen if he started running easier and doing more workouts.
What's interesting to me is how fast a person that is strong enough to train like that can run a marathon, rather than whether it's a good idea. It's similar to what Nenow used to do, so it might be effective.
I'm just wondering, since he's done this for multiple years at this point if he'll eventually adjust and start running even faster. Next year maybe he averages 5:50 pace? I think he just needs to get in some work at 5:20 pace once in a while and work his way to a sub 2:30 sometime.
WinnytheBish wrote:
MP all day every day wrote:
I think I know who this guy is, I almost started a thread on him myself after he crushed one of my Strava KOMs in the middle of a long run a few months ago. I thought he was faking it by biking his segments at first, but turns out he's a legit runner. 8-20 miles at sub 6 minute pace, several days a week. Insane. A couple of solid PRs, but mostly pretty inconsistent race results considering what he does in training.
OP, is this guy a recent Ivy grad?
Based on the mileage, this isn't the same guy. This guy doesn't run 8 or 20 milers. Double digits in singles every day.
No solid PRs really and he doesn't really attack segments as there is a post-collegiate group that trains nearby and has most of the KOMs.
I'm not sure where he went to College, so maybe. Still don't think this is the same guy.
So you're telling me there's at least two guys in the world following this crazy training plan? Guy I'm talking about has run sub 30 and some equivalent times but most of his races have been much slower, I'm guessing because he's probably overtrained or injured all the time.
5
MP all day every day wrote:
WinnytheBish wrote:
Based on the mileage, this isn't the same guy. This guy doesn't run 8 or 20 milers. Double digits in singles every day.
No solid PRs really and he doesn't really attack segments as there is a post-collegiate group that trains nearby and has most of the KOMs.
I'm not sure where he went to College, so maybe. Still don't think this is the same guy.
So you're telling me there's at least two guys in the world following this crazy training plan? Guy I'm talking about has run sub 30 and some equivalent times but most of his races have been much slower, I'm guessing because he's probably overtrained or injured all the time.
I'll say this. The guy I see isn't within 3 minutes of sub 30. His PRs are middling. None of them make sense.