I'll grant you that, but at the same time that Americans have fallen out of contention, the number of Americans signing up for road races has skyrocketed. So the sport is not by any means dying.
I'll grant you that, but at the same time that Americans have fallen out of contention, the number of Americans signing up for road races has skyrocketed. So the sport is not by any means dying.
Chap,
Kandie is a 'NOBODY'?
You, sir, are a joker.
Legions of fans who loved baseball growing up because of the mystique of the records, history and tradition lost interest, including me, when big numbers of players including infielders started to suddenly challenge records that usually held up for decades until the next bona fide great ones came along.
Roger Clemens throwing heat near age forty was like a runner that age running a 9.6 for the 100 meters.
Track and Field/Running has been sliding for quite a while due to the dope but the sudden fall of records in the 5000/10K and half looks an awful lot the Maguire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens....era.
Who can really get excited?
talent > wind >>>> juice > shoes = today
newredsun wrote:
Legions of fans who loved baseball growing up because of the mystique of the records, history and tradition lost interest, including me, when big numbers of players including infielders started to suddenly challenge records that usually held up for decades until the next bona fide great ones came along.
Roger Clemens throwing heat near age forty was like a runner that age running a 9.6 for the 100 meters.
Track and Field/Running has been sliding for quite a while due to the dope but the sudden fall of records in the 5000/10K and half looks an awful lot the Maguire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens....era.
Who can really get excited?
Yeah... or people are more willing to go all-in on peaking to run fast times instead of championship races like normal.
Were those four guys in the COVID-19 vaccine trials ?
Where do I sign up ?
58:01 was not strong. Kamworor is a beast, sure, but he just isn't once-in-a-generation talent like Bekele or Kipchoge. It should have been sub-58 a decade ago, had those two even bother to do it. And let's not forget Kamworor broke the WR by himself. Put him in today's race and he would have run something like 58:30-40 as well.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
Like Coevett, you need to inform yourself about what you write.
Nairobi has, from 2 years, an accreditede lab for antidoping analysis, and I can tell you that the best Kenyans, in Kenya, this year were tested more than in other Countries.
An athlete like Kandie, already able running 4 times under 59 min and silver medal in WCh, of sure was tested some time, maybe after his previous performances.
Barely any out of competition testing this year and despite less competitions the 5,000 10,000 and half marathon records have all gone. You are deluded and it does not matter how many East Africans are busted you still keep defending them and only seeing one blinkered point of view.
I think you've neglected the pacing light, which was a huge factor for the 5000/10000 WR. And the HM was run optimally today, which is also a rarity.
newredsun wrote:
Legions of fans who loved baseball growing up because of the mystique of the records, history and tradition lost interest, including me, when big numbers of players including infielders started to suddenly challenge records that usually held up for decades until the next bona fide great ones came along.
Roger Clemens throwing heat near age forty was like a runner that age running a 9.6 for the 100 meters.
Track and Field/Running has been sliding for quite a while due to the dope but the sudden fall of records in the 5000/10K and half looks an awful lot the Maguire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens....era.
Who can really get excited?
Complete Games leaders 1968
Marichal SFG 30
Gibson STL 28
McLain DET 28
Jenkins CHC 20
Tiant CLE 19
Perry SFG 19
Stottlemyre NYY 19
McNally BAL 18
Koosman NYM 17
Hardin BAL 16
Complete Games leaders 2019
Bieber CLE 3
Giolito CHW 3
Minor TEX 2
Eflin PHI 2
Leake 2TM 2
Verlander HOU 2
Nova CHW 2
Buehler LAD 2
It's easy to just see fast results and cry 'cheat', but how do you draw a line on what's possible for a clean athlete?
I'm from the UK and the other month at the World Half we had Jake Smith (who?) run 60.30 ish on, by all accounts, not a particularly quick course, on a cold day. This is a guy who had a PB of 14:42 fo 5k TWO years ago (at the tender age of 20) and 15:40 the year before that! How, if he is able to now run 60:30, is it completely beyond the realms of possibility that these top, top, top guys who've lived and trained at altitude and dedicated themselves to running for their entire lives, run 11 seconds a mile quicker than this kid? Comparably, over 10k they'd beat him by a couple of minutes, so to run 3 minutes faster over a Half seems about right.
I thought the same thing years ago when Makhloufi won the Olympic 1500 in London running around 3:30 that year. Yet we had Ross Murray in there, who ran 3:34 off the back of a year at uni getting bladdered twice a week and basically managing to string together 3/4 months of training in between numerous serious injuries.
I'm not saying that none of these guys are cheating, because I'm sure they are, but you can't doubt EVERY top run. You've got to draw the line somewhere...
newredsun wrote:
Legions of fans who loved baseball growing up because of the mystique of the records, history and tradition lost interest, including me, when big numbers of players including infielders started to suddenly challenge records that usually held up for decades until the next bona fide great ones came along.
Roger Clemens throwing heat near age forty was like a runner that age running a 9.6 for the 100 meters.
Track and Field/Running has been sliding for quite a while due to the dope but the sudden fall of records in the 5000/10K and half looks an awful lot the Maguire, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens....era.
Who can really get excited?
Nolan Ryan was throwing heat at over 40.
Really don’t think he was doping
Jesus christ you guys are ruining this sport with your whining. Records weren't meant to last forever. Yeah these shoes are probably making runners faster. Maybe we'll move the way of other sports and start giving more weight to intra-era rather than inter-era comparisons.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Renato Canova wrote:
Like Coevett, you need to inform yourself about what you write.
Nairobi has, from 2 years, an accreditede lab for antidoping analysis, and I can tell you that the best Kenyans, in Kenya, this year were tested more than in other Countries.
An athlete like Kandie, already able running 4 times under 59 min and silver medal in WCh, of sure was tested some time, maybe after his previous performances.
Barely any out of competition testing this year and despite less competitions the 5,000 10,000 and half marathon records have all gone. You are deluded and it does not matter how many East Africans are busted you still keep defending them and only seeing one blinkered point of view.
Of course you know more about what goes on in Kenya than Renato.
Kiptum was busted in Valencia two years ago.
If these guys are doping they will be caught.
Now you and the other doping-obsessed posters, please let us enjoy the little running we have.
NERunner53 wrote:
That LRC recap was way too negative & hyperfocused on the shoes instead of the rivalry at play here and what his future prospects are. Ya'll make it hard to be fans of the sport when you complain so much. Try some optimism -- it's more enjoyable for fans.
I agree with this.
I’ll go out on a limb here and say that every one on the world class scene is suspect and have been for quite some time. Remember in the 90s when an American breaking 13:20 was big news. Now it’s nothing. What’s changed in training since then? Not much.
5t5thh wrote:
Coevett wrote:
You're a terrible coach if you would have no idea if one of your athletes was doping. If you were training somebody the same way for several years and they suddenly made vast improvements and were recovering much quicker from workouts, what would you put it down to? Better sleep?
You show your ignorance. Doping is not used just for direct performance enhancement. It can be used to recover more quickly, to heal more quickly, etc.
You know nothing about my runners.
I hope dopers are caught.
I hope you stop spreading lies.
Eh? I accuse you of being a terrible coach for failing to understand that doping can lead to faster recovery from workouts, and you claim I show my ignorance for failing to understand that doping can lead to faster recovery from workouts???
It's relevant that just two years ago another Kenyan produced a hard to believe performance and was busted, and it's relevant that after 100+ busts there is a demonstrated rampant doping culture in Kenyan distance running.
I feel sorry for the rivals of your athletes. In fact I feel sorry for your athletes as it sounds as though they are kids and they have a LetsRun doping apologist as a coach.
Renato Canova wrote:
Coevett, why do you continue to write wrong things ?
Cheromei never was the coach of Vincent Yator. He was a track runner for long time in the group of Patrick Sang, after moved to road races, changing management to Ika Ika. Cheromei was always the coach of Gianni Demadonna group.
I suggest you to take correct infos before writing about Kenyans : the most part of news and suppositions about Kenyans that you write in LR are total stupidities.
There are a number of articles online that state that he was.
https://nation.africa/kenya/sports/athletics/vincent-yator-from-jaws-of-death-to-honolulu-podium-117258After the Frankfurt Marathon, Yator, 29, stepped up his training in Iten under coach Joseph Cheromei and training partner Mark Korir.
“My body felt good today, it’s just that I didn’t put in enough training.
Bluesky wrote:
Yes good point here!!!
1) Let's take sprint 100 /200/ 400/ and add 800 metres. Imagine 4 guys broke an already strong WR, or IF at almost at every golden league or Worls championship we have World record broken!! World record has always been one of a kind unique performance. And this also in distance running or road running but since a few years everything changed dramatically , almost at every big race a WR has been broken.At the same time in the last few years we had Kenyans runners banned for doping like we have never seen in history of the sport. Now already with this facts someone can do 2+2=4.
But let's go back to sprint .If I want I can have 4 people break a WR!!! How ?? I will push to the limits the use of peds specific for sprint races.. The big problem is that the peds that really improve sprint races or long jump or Throwing event are different from the peds needed to improve in distance running. And MORE DIFFICULT TO HIDE TO ANTIDOPING at least with big dosage needed to improve the performance. It s not a case that many records in those event are still from another era . Where those substances were commonly used.
Then we arrive at EPO era and everything changed forever in distance running.BREAK A WORLD RECORD is NO MORE A UNIQUE OR AN AWESOME PERFORMANCE, OF SOME FREAK OF NATURE GIFTED RUNNER ,BUT IS NOW AN ORDINARY THING IT CAN HAPPEN AT EVERY RACE BY EVERY TOP RUNNER IN THE RACE .
This Epo is more difficult to find and more easy to cover up. You can microdose it and have the benefit for many weeks. IT MAKES YOU TO RUN SMOOTH as I heard some africans runners say.
Shut up with the drug nonsense. This ridiculous belief that drugs can increase energy output is the most dreadful pseudoscience.
Please all of you, stop with this idiotic rhetoric.
Has anyone run on a cinder track, then on a tartan track, big difference.
5t5thh wrote:
Outliers exist, and it's not like Kamworor ran his 58:01 under ideal conditions.
I would even go as far as saying that he was in better shape in Cardiff and under today's conditions he could have run a similar time - mid 57s
Valencia caught Kiptum, so it's not like they are protecting anyone.
Kibiwott Kandie is a very special talent indeed. He went from being the only man to ever run 3 sub 59 minute half marathons in a season to become a 4 sub 59 minute half marathoner within 12 months! At the world half marathon he made the mistakes most novices make by making several surges early in the race which wore most of his energy off. Had he run an even pace, the gold was his.
That said, Kamworor is still the undisputed half marathon king. Had he been in this and healthy, 57:20 was possible. I hope he gets an opportunity in 2021 to "dance" with the new kids on the block.