Mr. Renato Canova: Can you answer some questions about training?

When I speak about a percentage, this is related with the time that you spend for running 100m at the speed of the race. For example, if you run 800m in 2:00, your time every 100m is 15.0. How much is 1% of 15.0 ? It's 0.15. So, if you run at 98% of that speed, you run at 15.0 + 0.3 = 15.3 each 100m = 2:02.4. Instead, if you run at 102%, you run at 14.7 = 1:57.6 pace.

There are many ways to look for the percentages. Reember that this is not mathematics. What is important is to understand the mean.

So, if we speak about the percentage of the speed, we must use difficult calculations, and the points don't follow a linear development. We must use something easy, and the percentage of the used time is the easier way.

If you run 800m in 1:50 = 110.0, how much is the 25% of this time ? 27.5. This means that you run full 800m in 137.5 sec when you go at 75% of your time, not of your speed. How much is 137.5 every 100m ? 17.187 (17.2) that means 34.4 / 1:08.8 / 1:43.2 about.

This is the way for speaking of percentage, without being too much precise (if I run 1:42, I don't write 76,34 %, I suppose that people can understand the concept, and I don't want to be ridicolous).

Renato Canova:

Can you describe some change of pace track sessions that you use with your 1500/3000m runners?

And I also wonder what you mean with “ We need to increase local resistance, in order to build a better base for developing lactic capacity”? Can you explain what this is for type of training?

Keep up with the great posts!

Thanks Tinman i always enjoy reading your posts, you and rento have helped me so much.

After reading over the past few years what you and renato have posted I've had similair thoughts about using 5k reps and faster before the special phase (i took the same method as marathon preperation but two steps faster).

During that phase of training i am considering using weekly sets of 15*300m with equal rest, a 5k race but still keeping long tempo runs of 12k and 10k pace work before moving into the specific phase. However how much of this work should I use? Should i be looking for a 5k pb 6 - 8 weeks before my main half marathon race?

20k boy wrote:

Thanks Tinman i always enjoy reading your posts, you and rento have helped me so much.

After reading over the past few years what you and renato have posted I've had similair thoughts about using 5k reps and faster before the special phase (i took the same method as marathon preperation but two steps faster).

During that phase of training i am considering using weekly sets of 15*300m with equal rest, a 5k race but still keeping long tempo runs of 12k and 10k pace work before moving into the specific phase. However how much of this work should I use? Should i be looking for a 5k pb 6 - 8 weeks before my main half marathon race?

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I believe that having a personal best 5k time just 6-8 weeks before a marathon is not a good idea, unless you are training as a marathoner and just happen to obtain a personal best. Fuel economy is important and if you are to run a great 5k, then you are burning sugar (in glucose and glycogen) quickly. I advise marathoners to specialize their training in the last 12-14 weeks before their marathon race. I would focus on setting a personal best in the 10k or run a great xcountry race in the 2-3 months prior to that. Alternating focus on 10k and marathon in blocks of 2-3 months and 3-4 months, with a month of recovery after the marathon, is what I think works well. With this pattern, one would race a marathon no more than two times per year. If chronic fatigue and soreness build up and don't go away, bag the second marathon, period.

When I want to build the QUALITY that you need for being able to change speed quickly, during the FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD, I use circuits, climbing, like for example this one :

* 60m sprint (of course, climbing)

* 20.0 skipping

* 60m sprint

* 30m heels-to-buttocks

* 60m sprint

* 30m bounding

* 60m sprint

* one exercise lasting 30.0 on the ground (may be abdominals, or for your back)

* 60m sprint

* 30.0 very fasty action of your arms, standing

* 150/200m sprint

* 10 times squat-jumps

You can use the same circuit during the FUNDAMENTAL Period (may be twice per week) and the SPECIAL Period (once per week) but with different interpretation :

During FUNDAMENTAL Period I want to develop STRENGTH at high intensity, using short sprint like connection between every exercise. So, I have to do ALL THE EXERCISES with my max. effort, sprinting at 70% of my full speed. In this case, SHORT SPRINT UPHILL ARE THE SUPPORT FOR TECHNICAL EXERCISES CARRIED OUT AT MAX INTENSITY.

Instead, during SPECIAL Period, my goal is to develop the STRENGTH ENDURANCE, using a high percentage of that strength that I trained before, but looking for the specificism of running. In this case, I have to carry out every sprint at my max speed, using the exercises like support of the speed endurance.

For example, talking about the final exercise (squat-jump), during Fundamental Period we try to jump every time higher possible ; during Special Period, we can jump at 80% of our ability (using only this percentage of our possibility) trying to carry out the jumps using good speed, not all our power.

After these periods, the athlete is ready for using, once every 10 days or 2 weeks, a specific training of change of speed.

I give here some example of this type of training, regarding an athlete able running one mile in 4:00 :

a) 2 - 3 x 3000m (500 in 1:15 + 500 in 1:40 + 400 in 58.0 + 400 in 1:18 + 300 in 43 + 300 in 1:03 + 200 in 28 + 200 in 42 + 100m in 13 + 50m easy + 50m max) = 8:37 / 8:40, rec. 5/6 min (when we want to work for improving your METHABOLIC SYSTEM)

b) 3 - 4 x 1000m (alternating 100m in 13 / 100m in 17) = 2:30 rec. 5 min (when we want to work for improving your ability in LACTIC TOLERANCE)

c) 3 - 4 x 400m alternating 25m max speed / 25m without pushing, with final time of 49 / 51 sec (depending on the type of runners) (when we want to work for improving your ABILITY IN RECRUITING WHILE FIBRES ARE FULL OF LACTATE)

I remember one training from Said Aouita, that I saw in 1984 in Tirrenia before winning Olympic Games in LA :

3 times 1200m alternating 150m in about 18.5 / 19 and 50m without pushing, in about 10 / 12 sec., with final times between 3:02 and 3:04, recovering 5 min.

I know that this type of training was alreday used by Alberto Juantorena, preparing Montreal 1976, when he was able winning 400 and 800 in the same Olympic.

Interesting. Similar to fartlek.

Lighten up, it was a joke.

Scarecrow wrote:

Lighten up, it was a joke.

Better yet, you get the heck out. No one likes you or wishes to hear your paltry attempts at humor. Piss off.

Please don't drag this thread down with your bad language

Sorry Tinman i was refering to half marathon not the marathon. Do you think its wise to have a 5k pb 8 weeks out from a half marathon or 20k race?

Renato do you use circuits with your half marathon and marathon runners?

Renato Canova wrote:

When I want to build the QUALITY that you need for being able to change speed quickly, during the FUNDAMENTAL PERIOD, I use circuits, climbing, like for example this one :

* 60m sprint (of course, climbing)

* 20.0 skipping

* 60m sprint

* 30m heels-to-buttocks

* 60m sprint

* 30m bounding

* 60m sprint

* one exercise lasting 30.0 on the ground (may be abdominals, or for your back)

* 60m sprint

* 30.0 very fasty action of your arms, standing

* 150/200m sprint

* 10 times squat-jumps

Is this 2:00 rest after each?

I remember one training from Said Aouita, that I saw in 1984 in Tirrenia before winning Olympic Games in LA :

3 times 1200m alternating 150m in about 18.5 / 19 and 50m without pushing, in about 10 / 12 sec., with final times between 3:02 and 3:04, recovering 5 min.

Nice.

to tinman;

i certainly dont discourage the idea of a scientific approach to training, but i certainly dont think it should be the be all and end all. horses for courses a suppose.

one point though. you said that improvement in LT almost always results in improved perf from 5k and up. a can see why perhaps for distances over 5k but what about 5k itself ? is the race not run well above lactate threshold pace ?

a can remember reading a study which was done on paula radcliffe, when she was younger over a few years. in the first year she improved VO2max LT etc. then her VO2 plateued yet her 3000m time still got better, which was put down to an increased LT, amongst other factors !

bemused wrote:

to tinman;

i certainly dont discourage the idea of a scientific approach to training, but i certainly dont think it should be the be all and end all. horses for courses a suppose.

one point though. you said that improvement in LT almost always results in improved perf from 5k and up. a can see why perhaps for distances over 5k but what about 5k itself ? is the race not run well above lactate threshold pace ?

a can remember reading a study which was done on paula radcliffe, when she was younger over a few years. in the first year she improved VO2max LT etc. then her VO2 plateued yet her 3000m time still got better, which was put down to an increased LT, amongst other factors !

The benefits of a high lactate threshold don't automatically kick in after 5k. Just because it is not the crucial limiting factor doesn't mean it doesn't influence fatigue, even at shorter distances like the 800m.

Think of 1500m runners. Who'd you rather have your money on, knowing nothing else, as they come through 800m: runner A with lactate of 12 mmol or runner B with lactate of 10mmol. Keep in mind those levels are not directly proportional to the lactate production levels (runner B could actually be producing lactate quicker than A, but it is because he/she is able to clear it much better that their concentration is lower).

Really thinking about it, even 100m runners benefit from having a high lactate threshold.

I love reading stuff about the elite runners and the crazy workouts they do, but I think someone like Renato and Tinman also can give examples for slower people. A lot of people simply can't run 4:00 for the mile, could train a lifetime and never do it because the muscle fibers just aren't there.

Why would Renato's examples be discouraging?

I find it quite interesting to see his training, and what the top runners are doing.

Of course modulate everything to your own pace, duration, and efforts. This way you can do basically exactly the same things as anyone else. However, remember is it the ideas and concepts of the training that are important -- not doing every single split of a second the same way as somebody else -- but incorporating the methods and setting your program with the similar concepts and ideas.

Definetely. I would post adjustments myself, but am too busy w/ running/school, sorry.

Renato (or anyone else willing to answer),

I also have a question during the fundamental period regarding your training for 1500m/3000m runners during the Inroduction period and Fundamental period. I know that one runner does not want to get too far away from event specifity (high lactate values in mmol, etc.) and I was just curious as to what you would reccomend for a runner like myself having ran 3'50" 1500m (as my primary event) with not good longer distance endurance. Aside from doing general fundamental period circuits, fartlek, drills,and long runs, what would you recommend for a runner to raise his aerobic power, AnT at close to 1500m pace (like intervals at 3km pace?), and what would most benefit a runner targeting the 1500m during this Introductive/Fundamental period?

[quote]bemused wrote:

to tinman;

i certainly dont discourage the idea of a scientific approach to training, but i certainly dont think it should be the be all and end all. horses for courses a suppose.

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Reply:

Indeed, research shows at least a .90 correlation between 5k performance and LT. So, once VO2 max levels off, substantially more LT work should be done to improve race performance. This is not to persuade you from ignoring fast reps, but rather to elevate the awareness that LT is crucial to success, especially after higher intensity or pure volume doesn't improve performance anymore.