2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

First real rough day at the office for ya. I think you made the wise call to cut it short. Fun following, and I think you'll bounce back. Best of luck and hope outside factors cooperate a bit more going forward.

itdepends wrote:

Nice work pushing through. But I'm curious, why not just take the day and make it easy and move workouts around? If I'm off from the beginning I often do that.

Unfortunately my work and family schedule is very inflexible so it’s now or never for my workouts and long runs. I think it actually helps with mental toughness overall. Sometimes days like today happen though. Just gotta forget about it and move on to the next one!

Good spirit. Don't let it bother you.

I actually just had one of these days on my Monday workout. It was bewildering to me how hard things were feeling and how off my times were. Of course, work was a big stress so I had a feeling that was it.

Came back for my Wed workout last night and things flowed like melted butter. Actually, one of my best workouts. The reality is this just happens and it is related to many factors.

You already know, but figured I'd pipe in my experience this week. It's nothing.

itdepends wrote:

Nice work pushing through. But I'm curious, why not just take the day and make it easy and move workouts around? If I'm off from the beginning I often do that.

It's not that simple. Let's say he bags the workout today and does it tomorrow, now he's going to be tired for the long run on Saturday so either it's going to be of lower quality than planned or he'll have to move that one to Sunday. Well if he moves it to Sunday he doesn't get as much rest as intended before next week's workouts. Hard efforts are planned on certain days for a reason - if you just move one to the next day ad hoc it throws off the whole chain.

Lack of sleep can sometimes make the runner have an off day…...nothing to worry about. I bet you do a nice specific long run on Saturday instead . Cheers! :)

Below Average wrote:

2:30 long run with the last 30 min of 1 min on 1 min off scheduled for Saturday.

How is that last 30 minutes done, with coasting between, or jogging, or walking?

Presumably the heart rate recovery is not held to the 120 standard on those.

dunes runner wrote:

Below Average wrote:

2:30 long run with the last 30 min of 1 min on 1 min off scheduled for Saturday.

How is that last 30 minutes done, with coasting between, or jogging, or walking?

Presumably the heart rate recovery is not held to the 120 standard on those.

I try to hit a minute at about 5 min pace, then run a minute at my regular long run pace (6:10-6:40). I have been splitting 5:25-5:40 for my overall miles during them. I just run it by feel though and look at my splits and paces afterward. I have a tendency to zone out during Fartleks so I have to make sure I stay focused or the pace really slows down.

Below Average wrote:

Good thing the race wasn’t today. I think I would have made it about 3 miles...

Dumpster fire of a workout today. I’m not going to over analyze it. Body just didn’t have it. Sometimes my life just doesn’t allow me to recover. Goal was to hit the 2k in 6:10-6:15. I was completely off from the first 100m. I thought maybe my legs were just cold and things would come around. It went downhill from there and called it at 5 miles of work. I think the only positive I can take from this one is I’ll hopefully be extra rested for the long run on Saturday.

Good day

Burn out. Not enough base miles in the last 16 weeks, too many workouts. Getting slower for CIM?

Below Average wrote:

I try to hit a minute at about 5 min pace, then run a minute at my regular long run pace (6:10-6:40). I have been splitting 5:25-5:40 for my overall miles during them. I just run it by feel though and look at my splits and paces afterward. I have a tendency to zone out during Fartleks so I have to make sure I stay focused or the pace really slows down.

Thanks. How do you know your pace for the 1 minute reps?

Vo2 Maxxxed Ouuuut! wrote:

Below Average wrote:

Good thing the race wasn’t today. I think I would have made it about 3 miles...

Dumpster fire of a workout today. I’m not going to over analyze it. Body just didn’t have it. Sometimes my life just doesn’t allow me to recover. Goal was to hit the 2k in 6:10-6:15. I was completely off from the first 100m. I thought maybe my legs were just cold and things would come around. It went downhill from there and called it at 5 miles of work. I think the only positive I can take from this one is I’ll hopefully be extra rested for the long run on Saturday.

Good day

Burn out. Not enough base miles in the last 16 weeks, too many workouts. Getting slower for CIM?

This isn`t a phase system with what you call base miles , only enough mileage to back up the workouts.I think you understand your body can`t always respond at normal strength when you don`t get enough sleep? I`m not coaching robots! )))

dunes runner wrote:

Below Average wrote:

I try to hit a minute at about 5 min pace, then run a minute at my regular long run pace (6:10-6:40). I have been splitting 5:25-5:40 for my overall miles during them. I just run it by feel though and look at my splits and paces afterward. I have a tendency to zone out during Fartleks so I have to make sure I stay focused or the pace really slows down.

Thanks. How do you know your pace for the 1 minute reps?

I run with a garmin and just hit the split button every minute.

17 weeks down, 6 to go. Tough last 4 days. I guess you can’t feel good every week, even on 65 miles a week. Definitely lacking my usual pep. I’ll just try again next week. Good week.

M: 60 min easy, 8.8 miles, 6:49 pace

T: 10.2 miles, 20x 400, tough wind, ran on bike trail

69.9, 44.4

68.6, 45.7

69.9, 46.7

66.8, 53.4

69.4, 51.0

66.5, 52.4

69.4, 53.3

67.1, 55.2

69.5, 59.3

66.1, 59.1

68.7, 59.4

66.7, 59.9

69.2, 62.9

66.8, 63.3

69.0, 63.2

66.4, 63.2

68.8, 67.7

67.6, 64.1

69.1, 70.1

64.2, 67.3

W: 50 min easy, 7.12 miles, 7:01 pace

Th: 10 miles, 2k, 2x800, 1600, 2x800, 2x1200, 2x800, 2x1k, 3x800 @4:56-5:00 pace

6:26.2, 48.5

2:31.2, 46.6

2:31.6, 59.1

5:13.6, 1:31 ( didn’t take my heart rate, did max rest to see if I could turn things around)

2:32.4, 1:31

2:33, 1:31

3:55.9

DNF :(

F: 50 min easy, 7 miles, 7:08 pace

S: 2:30, last 30 min 1min on 1 min off. 23.05 miles, 6:30 pace. Only managed 5:20 pace for my 1 min on. Last 5 miles 5:48, 5:44, 5:48, 5:54, 5:49. Knew at 12 miles it wasn’t going to be a great day but just did my best.

S: rest

Total: 66.17 miles

Today Phil had a good cut in the step again . Easy 7:49 miles in 50 min and average pace 6:40.

First mile 7:07 and last mile 6:46 up the hill at the end . The miles between at 6:20-6:35 .A good easy run that early in the morning .Tomorrow 400s again , Good day!

Phil, are you loaded with glycogen and iron?

Workouts with ALOT of intervals plus longrun blasting the quick stuff on the end.

Must take massive blows to the glycogen stores. Slowly worn down.

Increase in good carbs and rich greens at this stage of the cycle.

drei strepfen wrote:

Phil, are you loaded with glycogen and iron?

Workouts with ALOT of intervals plus longrun blasting the quick stuff on the end.

Must take massive blows to the glycogen stores. Slowly worn down.

Increase in good carbs and rich greens at this stage of the cycle.

It`s not like that…….What Phil need is normal sleep and then he gets his horse power back.Try to tell this you said to e.g Kipchoge who trains the same way but then also of course more mileage.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

drei strepfen wrote:

Phil, are you loaded with glycogen and iron?

Workouts with ALOT of intervals plus longrun blasting the quick stuff on the end.

Must take massive blows to the glycogen stores. Slowly worn down.

Increase in good carbs and rich greens at this stage of the cycle.

It`s not like that…….What Phil need is normal sleep and then he gets his horse power back.Try to tell this you said to e.g Kipchoge who trains the same way but then also of course more mileage.

Below Average isn't Kipchoge, so don't compare them

News Flashy wrote:

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

It`s not like that…….What Phil need is normal sleep and then he gets his horse power back.Try to tell this you said to e.g Kipchoge who trains the same way but then also of course more mileage.

Below Average isn't Kipchoge, so don't compare them

If Kipchoge had to hold down a full time job plus family responsibilities and train off very limited sleep like Below Average then they might be more comparable in terms of the training approaches that you would have to apply. I appreciate Below Average's courage in trying to put together high level training under far less than ideal life circumstances. I hope he can hold things together for his marathon.

News Flashy wrote:

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

It`s not like that…….What Phil need is normal sleep and then he gets his horse power back.Try to tell this you said to e.g Kipchoge who trains the same way but then also of course more mileage.

Below Average isn't Kipchoge, so don't compare them

I’d say I’m more of an old, bald, slow, ingebrigtsen step brother than kipchoge.

Hey "Below Average. I've read alot of the thread, but just trying to remember. What did your average 400 repeat times start at when this program began? Just trying to see the comparison from then to now. Low 70's?

Also, do you use your GPS on the bike path for most of the 400's? Just curious. I do this sometimes and oddly find myself struggling on some days. Have almost thought my GPS has bad days and isn't correct.

Lastly, when it has come to the progression of this program and your times coming down. Has it just been fluid and by feel? Or were you aiming to reduce week by week even if it felt harder/uncomfortable?