David Epstein/Pro Publica/BBC Story: Former Team Members Accuse Famed Coach Alberto Salazar of Breaking Drug Rules

Everyone on here is missing the biggest aspect of this story.

Track & Field was on TV and it's not even an Olympic year!

Man, you absolutely sound like a movie bad guy who tries to corrupt the hero with his twisted vision of a "better" future. This reads like a note from Darth Vader to Luke. Do you honestly believe that unrestricted PED use would help the sport's popularity? I think that is a gross misjudgment.

Something substantive to add wrote:

If anyone is aware of research into benefits of EPO use in elite athletes, I'd love to see it.

they take it and win gold medals

what more research do you need

bhuuho9889 wrote:

Honestly it doesn't even bother me much that these guys take T3 or microdose androgel now because I believe that nearly everyone at the top of the sport is doping to some degree.

This is really sad. How many people have this same viewpoint?

The elites I know are clean, but, even as Olympians, they are not the gold medalists (except one world record holder who is truly a phenom). Clear out the dopers (how many pro athletes are dopers?) and who is left, performing on their own strength and endurance?

Read the whole thing and it just seems weak. I hope they are clean, but in the end they could be dirty. With Armstrong you just knew because everyone was dirty and the odds of a clean athlete dominating all the dirty ones just didnt work.

One thing I noticed as this story broke and all of the running cites picked it up I didn't see it anywhere on places like espn, nbc sports, or even usa today or cnn. So how big of story is it, or is it just a reprint of what was already out there.

Something substantive to add wrote:

Renato,

There are at least some researchers that openly question the efficacy of EPO at the elite level - see:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bcp.12034/full

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that study is horsesh1t

" As mentioned earlier, VO2max is poorly related to cycle performance [64, 74], and Lucia et al. [124] even questions whether VO2max is the limiting factor for maximal endurance performance in some 50% of professional cyclists, owing to a lack of plateau in VO2max during an exercise-to-exhaustion test. "

VO2max is very much a "limiting" factor for cycling performance

Nike has thrown Salazar under the bus. He is on his own to defend himself. Nike will not try to save him.

Nike has stepped into the doping row involving Mo Farah’s coach Alberto Salazar by stressing it “does not condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs in any manner”.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/04/nike-alberto-salazar-mo-farah-doping-row

J.R. wrote:

Chet Manly wrote:

Shouldn't they actually have some evidence rather some vague and unverifiable stories?

What you are speaking of is heresy.

It's definitely NOT heresy, unless you are saying what NOP is doing is heresy.

As for "hearsay", some of the evidence presented could be called that, but much more is not.

From the story you link:Nike, which created the Oregon Project in 2001 near its Portland headquarters to promote American long distance running, said: “We take the allegations very seriously as Nike does not condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs in any manner. Both Alberto and Galen have made their perspectives clear and fully refute the allegations made against them.”Not sure how this is throwing AlSal under the bus. Sounds more like they're supporting their people.

AlSal is DONE wrote:

Nike has thrown Salazar under the bus. He is on his own to defend himself. Nike will not try to save him.

Nike has stepped into the doping row involving Mo Farah’s coach Alberto Salazar by stressing it “does not condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs in any manner”.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/04/nike-alberto-salazar-mo-farah-doping-row

Coach.. wrote:

Something substantive to add wrote:

Renato,

There are at least some researchers that openly question the efficacy of EPO at the elite level - see:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/bcp.12034/full

.

that study is horsesh1t

VO2max is very much a "limiting" factor for cycling performance

As I mentioned in my post, I was playing devil's advocate. Most researchers I'm aware of fully believe EPO benefits elites, but I'm not aware of research which explicitly demonstrates it. So all we've got are anecdotes and research on EPO's benefits in "well-trained" subjects. Which frankly isn't strong enough evidence.

ijustdontknow wrote:

Read the whole thing and it just seems weak. I hope they are clean, but in the end they could be dirty. With Armstrong you just knew because everyone was dirty and the odds of a clean athlete dominating all the dirty ones just didnt work.

One thing I noticed as this story broke and all of the running cites picked it up I didn't see it anywhere on places like espn, nbc sports, or even usa today or cnn. So how big of story is it, or is it just a reprint of what was already out there.

You see with blinders on."Nike does not condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs in any manner." = Use one molecule and Nike will not save you."Both Alberto and Galen have made their perspectives clear and fully refute the allegations made against them.” = We didn't use a single molecule of anything.Nike got this right. If Salazar and Rupp are caught doing anything, at any level--not testable--, Nike can dissolve their contracts with them. Contracts, like Salazar and Rupp, have would include several ethic clauses.

Er... wrote:

From the story you link:

Nike, which created the Oregon Project in 2001 near its Portland headquarters to promote American long distance running, said: “We take the allegations very seriously as Nike does not condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs in any manner. Both Alberto and Galen have made their perspectives clear and fully refute the allegations made against them.”

Not sure how this is throwing AlSal under the bus. Sounds more like they're supporting their people.

AlSal is DONE wrote:

Nike has thrown Salazar under the bus. He is on his own to defend himself. Nike will not try to save him.

Nike has stepped into the doping row involving Mo Farah’s coach Alberto Salazar by stressing it “does not condone the use of performance-enhancing drugs in any manner”.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/04/nike-alberto-salazar-mo-farah-doping-row

In response to i Just Don't Know concern that major news outlets did not pick up ProPublica article.

The article was carried as the lead on ESPN Olympic News page yesterday evening and still is today.

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackandfield/story/_/id/13006881/ex-track-assistant-coach-accuses-alberto-salazar-encouraging-doping

You are correct that the there was no front page coverage. Then again there are days on ESPN when the entire front page is devoid of any real sports news but full of insight into Ray McDonald's dating preferences and the statistical relationship between mascot color and team ERA.

I think the article is a big deal and not something that is going to go away. Eventually, WADA will clamp down on TUEs. Eventually, enough people will roll that the ringleaders/ worst offenders will either be officially sanctioned or effectively shunned. Eventually, there will be a culture shift and dopers will be the scorned exception instead of the protected norm. We have seen it happen in baseball (not perfectly, but it is happening) and I think it will happen in T&F.

I for one, do not think a 12:40 5k is any more exciting to watch than a 13:20 5k. Excitement and interest in distance events comes from competition and the chance of upset/ drama. No one took any pleasure in watching Mahkloufi win the 2012 Olympic 1500. Everyone knew he would win going into the final and everyone knew it was a fraud. It was a joke and a disgrace.

HGHed wrote:

In Galen's twisted mind, he has not doped nor done anything wrong. In his mind he has gotten TUEs for everything necessary or taken doses lower than what would trigger a positive test. I am sure years of Al Sal's mentality has rubbed off on him.

Actually I can buy that argument. However if the allegations of thr article ade true they crossed over froma grey area into a black area. You are not allowed to take microdoses of testosterone.

Also let's take predisone there is an SI article from the 80s that says Alberto took it to try and adjust his adrenal levels if I am remembering correctly. I'd post it but I'm on a phone. If Galen is taking it now frequently it doesn't seem like its for allergies but it is a plausible story to present.

Err...Er wrote:

Hate to break it to you but Kara is not really the point of what is going on.

You may like her. You may despise her. Makes zero difference.

Now try to get back on track.

I'm sorry, but with all the pros coming out praising Goucher, I think it's worth putting her claims under a little scrutiny. If the program is that dirty I have a hard time imagining how she is clean. Virtually all of the people outing Armstrong were dirty as well.

Dear Wejo,

I'm sorry to say, but you just don't understand how this whole thing works. This is way over your head. News flash for everyone, GALEN HAS HYPOGONADISM meaning HE HAS A T.U.E FOR TESTOSTERONE. Did you really think Alberto would be so stupid to have his guy on testosterone without approval from WADA? Galen and Alberto denied testosterone use to people like Steve Magness because it's Galen's private medical information, and a slightly embarassing condition. Everything Galen has ever taken he has a TUE for. I know for a fact the same is true for Mo. Centro does not take anything.

You guys are naive idiots. The ONLY thing Alberto can get in trouble for is the Kara incident, but the statute of limitations has long passed on that and nothing will come of it. Galen will win gold in 2016.

Look...Nike was implicated in the FIFA scandal.Look...Nike has a lab that AlSal used, and it looks like their doctors knew that Galen was using Testosterone and other gray medicines.Look...Nike signed a 26 year deal with USATF.Look...within a year, they have an indoor and outdoor world championships in Oregon.Look...Part of the FIFA scandal involved bribes, which Nike likely was part of.Look...by controlling the largest Track and Field organization with an absurb 26 year deal...they were able to bypass a formal bid for the WC.Look...they also stood by Lance Armstrong until he was a liability.Look...now that they have bought the WC and USATF...it's important to keep lackeys like Stephanie Hightower in place to keep the charade goingWhen Galen and Al become a liability...they will be left to hang in the wind. Just like Lance. Galen and Al, if you're reading this...they have your back...until they don't. Companies turn on their star athletes all of the time to save face. Look at Tom Brady and Deflategate. He's incredulous that the rules have changed...he's no longer invicible. Things may get confusing for you. This is part of the deal. Nike will not go down with you.

wejo wrote:

Actually I can buy that argument. However if the allegations of thr article ade true they crossed over froma grey area into a black area. You are not allowed to take microdoses of testosterone.

Also let's take predisone there is an SI article from the 80s that says Alberto took it to try and adjust his adrenal levels if I am remembering correctly. I'd post it but I'm on a phone. If Galen is taking it now frequently it doesn't seem like its for allergies but it is a plausible story to present.

And moreover, the article showed a story in a hotel, during an European Meet, with a package for Galen, and Galen joking (knowing Zalazar methods) about the clandestine form of the package.

Mr. Magoo wrote:

wejo wrote:

I'm not buying it. If they had evidence of EPO usage David would have written about it on ProPublica.

There was no evidence of EPO use rising to the level of what did wind up in the broadcast, and that is why it was not included. As you have noted, Epstein is the consummate professional when it comes to journalism. But I have strong reasons to believe that some of those interviewed went into some detail about blood-boosters, not just steroids and borderline drugs such as thyroxine analogs and beta-2 agonists, and that if this material does ultimately come to light, all but the mouth-breathing pollyannas on here will recognize is as another indisputable blow to the NOP's badly reeling reputation.

Magoo I'd love it if you email me

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