Soup to Nuts - Letsrun Train Me

Yeah, that LV marathon sounds like fun! Sorry for not posting for a while, but I've been fighting a cold this week. Figures - right before the Gate River Run. Was hoping to at least equal the 15k time from a couple weeks ago, but now I'm not so sure. And the Georgia Marathon is out for me too.

I do like your plan with the marathon. There's nothing like an upcoming marathon to keep you focused on getting as fit as possible. If you can get to LV with a high level of fitness, a large distance base, and stay major injury-free, then I would say things are looking pretty good for your long term goals.

Euro,

I'll definitely jump into some college XC races this fall if I think I won't embarass myself. :) Club Nationals would be out, but they do have a regular USATF national meet in late January or early February, so you never know. That is at the 8k distance, so it all really depends on my condition, where the race is, and whether or not it is feasible for me to travel at that particular time.

PM,

Sorry to hear you've been battling a cold. I hope you're on the mend.

I am really excited about the LV Marathon as I definitely had fun last December and I particularly enjoy racing at night, so I'm thinking this will be just a blast. My tentative goal is to beat last years time by 30 minutes, but to feel like I'm giving about the same effort (which felt relatively easy at the time.)

So that would be a sub-3 marathon. Sounds like a plan. :)

Yeah, in the neighborhood of 2:50.

But, I reserve the right to go out relatively easy and if I'm feeling it, push a bit towards the end. ;)

So, thoughts on the 5 week block starting Sunday?

I'm thinking I definitely want to continue some tempo pace stuff, but geared a little more towards the HM distance and maybe even incorporate some of that work into my long days on Sundays.

I think it can't hurt to continue some hill work or speed efficiency stuff (200 m repeats perhaps at some point)

Do I add a third session in this block with some long intervals?

Supplemental, No good reason not to continue my core work of course. I'm thinking I can continue some variation of what I have been doing.

Its shaping up to be a tough block. As long as I listen to my body, run EASY on easy days, and get as much sleep as possible, I think I'll handle it just fine.

Oh, and of course I'll be sure to monitor my nutrition. My Lenten "sacrifice" of dropping sweets is already paying dividends. I think I've dropped 2 lbs this week :) (Of course, I've also dropped the overall caloric intake adjusting for my lighter volume of exercise this week.)

Impossible Dream wrote:

So, thoughts on the 5 week block starting Sunday?

Here's my ideas, but I'd be delighted for others to suggest different stuff...

First, I think 2 quality sessions plus a long run should be enough for anyone our age. You don't get fit during the sessions, you get fit during the recovery after, so allowing an extra day to make sure you get that full recovery/adaptation makes sense to me. 3 hard days also plays havoc with your ability to do steady runs and gym work.

I can see 2 choices for what's now the tempo session. You could maintain the 5m tempo and just let it get faster each week (and it will); you could simply add a mile each week until you are doing 7-8m (with 2m warmup and 1m warmdown, that's a big session); or you could do the Malmo session - 5min on/ 5 off, or mile hard/mile easy (maybe with runkeeper). I would build the extent up each week, so this will end up as a solid 10-11 miler.

Likewise, I think the hills would be doing you good and the obvious thing is just to add more reps and/or lengthen some of them a bit. If doing them outdoors on Saturday, maybe you can find something like Malmo describes. If not, then we could just have 2 reps - maybe 4-6x a longer one (90 sec) which will really push your heart up, and 4-6x a shorter one for form and power. (I'm just starting my hill phase so will try to work out a decent treadmill session too..)

The interesting bit for me is what to do inside and what to do outside, and when. There is a good case for doing the long session outside as it's realistic and it's your job to push the pace; but likewise hills outside are way more satisfying. It might make sense to alternate them.

Both sessions will start to tire you more than they did in the last block which may mean you need to make allowances - shorten your morning run the day after, maybe go a bit easier on weights or circuits etc.

Does this make sense so far?

eurodonkey wrote:

I can see 2 choices for what's now the tempo session.

Doh. 3 choices.

Must be the lactate. My kids amazingly had simultaneous homework-free nights, and I got down to the club for my first track session with company in over 2 months. 7 x (2x300) [40sec, 2min between sets], mostly 52 but banged out the last one in 46! Great fun but I'm going to be a bit sore...

eurodonkey wrote:

Does this make sense so far?

Definitely.

I'm thinking maybe the harder tempo session can be mixed up a little bit week to week.

Maybe something like this:

Wk 1 - 5-6 mile tempo

Wk 2 - Malmo 5 on/5 off

Wk 3 - Mile hard/Mile Easy

Wk 4 - 7-8 mile tempo

Wk 5 - Fitness Check, repeat of wk 1 tempo and either do it faster or do it the same speed and subjectively judge how much easier it was (is that a dumb idea?)

I'm with you on the hills. Although, do you think there is a place in this block for simple repeats on the track or should I just get that flat land form work through strides?

With this plan also, I'm thinking that I run as I feel on the long runs, not necessarily holding back if I feel like going a little harder. Of course if I do run a bit hard on my long run, my Mondays will be REALLY easy and my other easy days will be pretty easy running as well.

On the inside vs outside thing, I've got to be honest, if the weather permits I want to get outside. It seems like this winter has gone on forever and I'm getting tired of staring at my basement walls while on the TM. (I do have TV and tunes, of course, but you get the point.)

If you wanted to do some of the longer sessions on the track, in flat shoes, for a change from the treadmill, I'd say go for it.

But for shorter faster stuff (sub 5k pace, 200s/400s etc) where there is a 'springy' component and you are starting to get up on your toes, I think the injury risk will be lessened if you spend a bit longer gradually building up on hills first before you hit the track. The hill requires a range of motion and level of power similar to fast track running, but with a lot less impact.

It's a very, very common pattern to start on hills and progress to track later on. One recent article on speed development here...

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2009/05/sprint-training-part-2.html

Ok, Euro. Good point. Hills it is.

Ok, long story to tell. The short version is that I ran my time trial tonight.

The long version is that I decided to run the TT tonight for a couple of reasons. First, I did the Burpees in the circuti work out today. They were hard and I know I'm going to be sore tomorrow and probably even more sore on Saturday. So, I didn't want to run the TT while potentially being sore.

Second, I've got my annual review tomorrow. For what ever reason its a source of stress for me this year, likely because there's a good chunk of change on the other side of that review and that's going to help the family especially with us 99% sure we're going to re up the kids in the private school next year. Anyway, I wanted to get the TT out of the way prior to that review.

Third, I just felt like it. I was motivated this evening and had the energy.

So, I was going to go over to the track and get after it, but we've got 30 mph wind gusts! Not ideal for a TT.

I decided I would do it on the TM. BUT, I wanted it to be legit.

So, I took 30 minutes after the kids were in bed and I used Daniel's Book and calibrated the TM. It turns out that when I set my TM at 6 mph, I cover 170 meters per min, which according to Daniel's chart is roughly 6.3 mph. Now, my calculations or measurements could be off by a bit, but I guess what this little exercise told me is that I'm covering at least the distance my read out tells me I'm covering on my TM, if not a bit more.

Ok, enough background. I warmed up with 1+ mile easy and then did 3/4 of a mile at slightly slower than goal pace. Then, another 1/2 mile easy and then 4 fast strides.

Started the TT out a little slower than goal pace but got the TM up to my goal pace within 30 seconds. After 3/4 of a mile that was feeling comfortable so I edged up the speed one notch. With the lag in the TM getting up to speed, I came through the mile in 5:30. At that point I dropped the speed another notch and held that pace until I had 1/4 to go. In the last quarter I punched up the pace ultimatley to 5:13 pace for the last tenth.

Finished in 10:49 for 2 miles.

Anyway, I do feel good about the effort and I think it is a legitimate enough result to base trainig effort on until my next race. It puts me between 58 and 59 on Daniel's VDOT scale. So with caution I'll proceed with paces associated with the 58 VDOT.

Speaking of my next race on March 26, it is a certified course but it is point to point and significantly downhill, so I'm thinking its likely I'll run under 17, but we'll have to take that result with a grain of salt.

Congratulations - that's a massive leap forwards! You'll be the fastest one here in 2-3 months at this rate...

Good luck with the review. If you approach work with the same dedication you have shown in training, you're hopefully in for some very good news...what do you do, by the way?

You're improving so fast at the moment that I think it's really important to be cautious and not hammer the midweek workouts. We want a slow, long-term improvement from mileage and stronger legs, not the 'quick fix' of lactate tolerance. You also want to be ready for a little break and a mental step back after a 'mini-peak' at the half marathon.

Getting geeky for a moment, I think there may be something in the 'aggressive warmup' with the circuits. My best TM session of the winter came after a circuit too. I might experiment with adding a few calisthenics and jumps into my warmup routine. Sprinters have often found that they can perform better in explosive sprint work straight after a few sets of cleans in the gym.

Thanks Euro. I'm enjoying the process and the progress. I'm certain to hit a plateau somewhere along the way and that will be the real challenge when that happens.

Fastest? I am certain none of you guys are sitting around waiting for me to catch up to you :)

Thanks for asking about my work. I am in charge of a business unit which markets and sells a very specific type of vacation over the internet. I've managed to triple our revenue in 6 years and grow the business from a provider of of local destinations, to now having a presence all across North America. We've done well. I've got a good relationship with my boss, the company's owner, but these reviews can be intense. As per usual, he had me complete an extensive self review and there were some thought provoking questions involved, like "Describe for me how you go about making business decisions?"... Anyway, the stressful portion is he makes an annual bonus decision which is upwards of 10% of my income. He doesn't really set out objective criteria for that, so I go in kind of blind. That said, he has never not awarded the max amount so I have a good history.

Not to delve to far off the topic, the other issue that has been on my mind a lot is the fact that I have a strong interest in either gaining greater responsibility and autonomy here or striking out on my own in some capacity. In last year's review, I told him I had aspirations of running the company when he decided to take life a little easier. He has hinted recently that he wants me to take the next steps in my career, so the review should be interesting at the least.

Back on topic, I'm excited for the next block of training. I am also excited that the TT hints that the goal for my HM which has been in the back of my mind is more on the side of being realistic than not.

I agree that solid, methodical improvement is he most desirable outcome.

One final note, just to clarify I did my circuits during my lunch hour yesterday. They didn't immediately precede the TT. I did do an aggressive warm up, though, as suggested by Daniels. I had tried this in the past (10+ years ago in one of my failed comeback attempts) with some success. Essentially what I did was a hard 1200 (5:40 pace) about 10 minutes before I started the TT. As Daniel's writes, often times your best intervals in a session are well into the work out, not the first couple of reps, which is why he says to try a hard effort in warm ups. I had a good sweat going well before I started the TT last night.

Thanks again for the encouragement and have a great day!

That's a great TT ID! Way to go. It's really a great feeling to have surprises in training when workouts/TT's etc. go better than expected. Since I never use a treadmill I can't comment specifically about that, but it certainly sounds like you did your due diligence to make sure the result was as meaningful as possible.

I had a similar good experience this morning. I'm in the middle of what is going to be yet another new highest mileage week ever. Despite that, this Fri. called for the dreaded 12 miles w 7@15k-1/2MP pace Pfitzinger LT run. Ideally I wanted to run between 6:15 and 6:20's. After a full 5.5 mile warmup at roughly 7:30 pace I went straight into the tempo. Being the dolt that I can be I chose a course I like running hard on, not a flat easy course. Ended up with 6:16's and a last mile of 6:10!

Oh, and I've even done a tiny bit of core work a couple of times this week with some more to come later today. Things are looking up.

VF,

OUTSTANDING!!

Like I wrote to Euro, being the fastest guy in this thread is going to be difficult. You guys are presenting a moving target and its going to be tough to catch up. But I'm going to love the challenge.

Congrats, VF. That is definitely inspirational for me.

Good job ID, you certainly are doing a great job on the comeback.....unfortunately I have to pack my season in...looks like surgery will be needed to repair my sports hernia.

I'll have to live vicariously through your triumphs if you don't mind.

FO, sorry to hear that your sports hernia was not able to get better without surgery. Hope you have a good recovery. As a side note to you - I started the weight training we talked about and the results were almost immediate. :D Not sure how things are going to go this weekend, but looking for a decent 10k on 3/26 in Orlando.

VF, sounds like your heel is better and training is going well. Nice job on a tough workout!

Euro, I hope your hip is doing better. Care to share more info on what type of software company you have?

ID, that TT is quite a step forward. A 10:49 is 77%+ age graded. Serious progress, congrats!

FO,

I'm very sorry to hear about your setback. Please do keep us posted on your recovery.

Thanks for the encouragement, PM.