My goal of sub 4:00 1500-I will not stop until I reach my goal.

santa's, my view is that you do your 'workouts' hard and take the next day easy if it helps. now, as sair said, the faster you get, the harder 10k pace becomes in workouts, because you can sustain your pace for much longer. I find that 3k-5k GOAL pace is nearly always quite manageable for me on track work, but there is a gap from the intervals to the actual 3k-5k races, and even more of a gap to 10k. but as you get in better shape, and figure out the workouts that will allow you to sustain that pace for longer (longer intervals, tempos, long runs, fairly hard 12-14 milers), there should be a closer relation between the intervals and the races.

very nice job, ron. you are progressing well, and sub-5 mile is very much within range ten days from the time of that tempo (my guess is that the tempo benefit, which takes ten days or so, will allow you to sustain 74's). 19:55 solo tempo 5k is worth sub-19 in a track race, I would think.

boingo, good to see that you're getting in some aerobic work and giving yourself a chance to heal. the hip stuff can be aided by the stretch where you sit down, one leg out, the other knee pulled across the leg and up near the opposite hip, foot down, and you turn the opposite way. No doubt you do that one already. Also, standing, bend to the left over the hip and hold, and then to the right over the hip and hold--seems to help me. Then maybe the weight machines where you push your knees apart or in, would help.

sair, I wouldn't worry about running grass 1k's barefoot in a 'slow' time. you're doing great and we expect a lot from you when you race. as for the speed, I wouldn't shift to middle distance training, but incorporate more of the pure speed stuff (plyos, drills, strides, accelerations, 200 repeats) into your current training. It seems to me that you would go sub-4.

to the poster who thought I was overtraining for a 1500m, I agree. My 'focus' is just to run pr's at every distance this year. I think that I can get a 1500/mile pr next time out, if healthy, as the speed has improved. But to maximize my 1500m would clearly take a mileage drop. On the other hand, I seem to thrive off of high mileage, and every one of my pr's since sophomore year of college have been on close to my highest lifetime mileage to that point. Just recently, I was stagnating, pushed the mileage back up to 100 for a week, combined this with my fastest workouts, and ran a 58 second 5M pr.

my name is tommy. i know eddy very well. let me tell you. he is a very gay man. i have no idea what his post is about. something about not stopping until his goal is reached. whatever. we're actually about to get an apartment together soon. but he needs to get is f***ing act together. that's right eddy, i'm putting this shit out on letsrun forums, gay man. he's a runner, and he drags me along on 5k and 10k races that i do horribly in. actually i'm not that bad. ok jk, i suck.

..... nahhhh, ok i'm pretty gay at running. but eddy is awesome and will probably kick your ass at running. ok i'm actually drunk. but i see eddy every day and i work with him and he's so gay about running. it's his life and it's the reason i'm on this gay ass message board right now. we lived in a dorm together for a year and boy was he fit. god damn, did he look good. sheesh, if i had a boyfriend like that, i would never complain about anything. anyway. that's what she said. peace. oh i ain't gay.

you can break 4 off alot of k's. but you need consistent 64 running speed at least. a good session for 1500m/3000m training is this

8 X 200m

at 30 seconds for each rep

with 200m jog recovery completed in 45-50 seconds.

and yeh you do the last recovery so you end up with 3200m overall. if you're doing it properly you should end up with about a 10 to 10:25 2 mile all up which is in bloody good shape.

remember recoveries are key.

peace.

Ron, jonesy, boingo and everyone else who used to be on this thread - would you guys be interested in starting/keeping up a training thread of some sort (fresh one)? Hopefully that wouldn't offend the sensitive souls on this website.

Quick update - after missing my planned 5k 2 weeks ago I found a 3k race 2 days later, ran a so-so 8:58. Had a week of great training after, then injured my knee a week ago doing stupid stuff. Hoping to be back in action any day soon. Hope everyone's well!

Hey Sair... glad to see the thread is back up. I say the sensitive souls on this website can stick it. This site is about running and we're running. You, me, jonesy, eddylee, boingo, and solojoe are all trying run faster and I think the title of the thread says it all. The clowns who keep getting sick of the title popping up can take a flyin' leap.

My fitness continues to improve. A week and half ago I ran a 18:54 5k during a 20min tempo. 1600m splits were 6:06,6:04, and 6:01.

Last night did another 1600m tt and ran a 5:05.16. My time continues to go down. I managing around 55 miles per week. My knees and feet are feeling much better since I've been running on grass and the track whenever possible.

Good show on your 3k. Were your splits even or did you get faster as the race progressed?

2:21(800m), 4:46(1600m), 7:12(2400m), 8:58 I heard for the guy on my shoulder, so slowed down a little bit, but fairly steady. It's funny, I thought I was flying, and I was surprised the splits were so slow! First race is always a little like that for me though.

Great work on that time trial, you're knocking on the door now! That's some improvement. And that's a nice tempo run, very steady with good negative splits.

Looking forward to seeing how your progress keeps up!

Sair, are you training in Europe? If so, which country and are you following the racing circuit most of the elites are talking about? What's it like? I'm guessing you to be in your late 20's... true?

Those aren't bad splits for your first race back. At least you broke 9min. Keep it going!

In addition, I'm finding these 10+ mile training runs I do are killing me. I'm going to scale it back to running no more than 8miles at a go and then going x2 daily if need be. I signed up to do a 5k race for July 20th. It's supposed to be underground where temps are stable at 70F and the course is to be pretty flat. I'll try and break 18. Stay tuned on this one.

Also, xc season is approaching and I'm thinking of redirecting my training efforts to tackling the 8k. I would think my 1500m times will continue to drop even though I'm concentrating on the longer distance... what do you think?

Nice 3k Sair. 8:58 - I wouldn't be too disappointed with that. I ran 9:01 maybe a month before my 4:00 but my PRs are also way biased towards shorter distances.

A 5k race...underground? Did I read that right?

I would agree that your times would continue to drop - as you get in better general shape, you would have to redirect your efforts more specifically to the 1500m to continue the improvement, but right now that seems like a fine idea. Improving your longer endurance has never hurt anyone.

Slowly, very slowly, my leg is coming around. I'm doing some stuff like you suggested, jonesy - hip adductor and abductor crap. I am also getting a bunch of help from a chiro, as well as taking some crazy amounts of glucosamine, chronditon, and some other funny sounding supplements to help with inflammation and joints. Biked today - 26 miles in 92 minutes. Whoosh. If only I could hit that on foot.

Hey Boingo... great to see you're still in the game.... Thanks for your input.

Yes... underground. Here's a link to the race.

http://www.sunshinecenter.org/runtothesun/index.html

Dont quit your goal but i believe you need to set intermediate goals and work towards that 4:00 1500 meter goal. I had the same goal you had when i was running at college although it was 20 plus years ago. I ended only getting down to 4:09 but i firmly believe i was training too hard and going too fast in my races. when i ran the 4:09 i split 63-2:08-3:15. The goal i should have set for myself is 4:05 but i was always going out too fast and dying at the end. work on your base. get a real good summer of base mileage run cross country and focus on strength. Bulid towards a peak throughout the summer and fall and when indoor track comes mix it up. run some 5000m some 2miles 800m etc. but focus more on strength. as you get into the outdoor season with that great base behind you start with the intense speed workouts. ladders of 200m 300m 400m for speed days. strength days work on 600m 800m and 1000m. With a 2:00 800m speed you have the speed to run sub 4:00. I had 2:04 speed for 800m indoors but i always ran dumb going out in 57 and coming back in 67. Just shoot for :07 to 4:10 for 1500 initially especially indoor season. Then when you get into the peak 4 weeks of outdoors crank the intensity of your speed sessions more rest between but much faster. Need to be doing your 400m reps in 61 to 62 to get used to running faster than the 6 average you need to run 4:00. Then get into a good race that has a lot of runners running 3:55 to 4:00 pace. Try to run as even as possible 64-2:08- 3:12. I know this was lengthy but looking back at my situation 20 plus years ago it mirrors yours very very closely. You have a little more speed but i was a more distance oriented runner the 1500 was the shortest event for me that i could do and have any success. Good luck!!!!!

Thanks for the input :)

I met my weekly mileage goal of 70.

M: AM: 4.5

PM: 10 total

3x2mile+2:30 rest

12:10, 12:20, 12:36...big cramp and I started too fast even though it felt easy...if that makes sense

T: AM:4.25

PM: 7.25 w/ 10x25second strides on the grass

W: 9

TH: 8

F: AM:4

PM: 7

S: 13miles @710pace

S: 7.5

Total: 73

I start phase 2 in Daniels' Running Formula this week, and I am racing a 5k or 10k (still deciding) this Saturday.

I'm in Europe,and I try to catch some of the golden league races on television, but running in them's not for the likes of me! Luckily there are local leagues where standards would range from, say, 3:45/~8:00 winning times (1500m/3000m) for the 'A' races right through to 4:30/9:40 type winning times for the 'E' races, so those are ideal.

I think you're right to be scaling back your easy runs. When I was a ~17min 5k runner I went through a phase where I stubbornly decided to run 10miles every day, and my easy runs were taking 80mins. I think I just wasn't quite up to it at the time, and I was always quite worn out. I actually find I feel better and fresher after, say, a 65min/35min double than an 80min single where I'm plodding. Maybe keep up the 10+ mile runs once or twice a week, and keep the other days shorter. I'm a big fan of 2x45-50min runs on easy days, I find it gets me fit while keeping me fresh.

You might find after a few more months of running that you benefit from the long singles that Jonesy does, but he's taken time to build up to that, so listen to your body and scale back. Doubles are great!

I'd be willing to bet your 1500m will keep dropping as you train for 8k - althoug you need short, intense track training to maximise your potential at 1500m, endurance is a big part of 1500m running and with the overall improvement curve you can expect, 1500m times should drop nicely. My fastest 3k time is still from an indoor race in the middle of a 10k cross-country training.

Good luck with the recovery, boingo. You'll have these problems behind you well before you're near the cross-country season. And that's some impressive biking! Should keep you in good shape.

Nice week Eddy, good mileage, nice long session, strides. Good luck in your race!

Oh, and I'm 24.

well i feel like this thread relates to me in some way as this coming track season i want to break, 2 for 800m, 4 for 1500m, and 9 for 3000m.

but in the immediate future. (its winter, cross country season here in australia)

i want to break 20 minutes for 6k at my national cross country.

i managed to run 20:50 at state championships off basically no running for 2 weeks before it (hamstring tendonitis), still came 4th and managed to qualify for nationals somehow.

im 16.

anyways.

here's my last week of running.

sunday.

3000m race on the track, time of 9:48, splits, 3:02, 3:25, 3:21, basically started jogging after i went lactic.

one hour run an hour later when i got home.

18km total that day including w/up an w/down

monday

nothing. had work from 10-5:30 was dark an freezing when i got home.

tuesday

w/u 2.5k.

20 minute tempo. felt crap. meh went ok i guess.

4 k w/d.

wednesday

ran 55 mins at like 12pm.

6 x100m strides at 9pm on the oval. ranging from 17-15.2 secs

thursday

3km w/u.

ran session involving. 2 minute rep, 1 min rest, then 1 an half minute rep, one minute rep, followed by 1 minute rep followed by 1.5 mins rest. did this twice i felt bad, but i ran the reps fast.

friday. 2km . basically nothing. felt terrible.

saturday.

2 k w/u

4.2k dirt road race by myself was pretty hilly on the way out so i split 7:20 an ended with 14:38.

1.5k w/d.

next week. this week.

sunday. 1 and a half hour long run up and around the hills.

monday (today)

ran 12.2 k in the morning took one hour to do it.

good to see the thread lives again. and how about that, an appearance from eddylee himself! nice mileage and a good 13. continue building that base and you're going to see dividends during xc and track. nice race, sair. as a rustbuster, that indicates something promising when you get back into it. nice work, radical ron. you are making steady progress. I agree w/sair on the singles/doubles issue--for much of the last three weeks since getting sick, I have been struggling with the long singles and finally had a good run today, when I doubled. I'm re-adjusting to higher mileage with only my second 100M week since April. The illness blew my shot at a good 1500m pr, but I'm finally getting back in shape.

6/23/2008 0 Off none 0 Sick, thought that a day off wouldn't cost too much shape and might help.

6/24/2008 10.7 track-still sick, but starting to recover. 2x200-42,39,800-2:39,(400 r),2x600-1:53,1:54 (200r),3x400(200r)-75,73,73,800-2:37 (:38 rest),1x200-36.

6/25/2008 12.2 CP-11 (9.5M in 1:09:05). coughed out a lung only once, fortunately. had a spare.

6/26/2008 13 team w/o: 6.8M-45:07-3x3 lamppost pickups (3 rest), 2M (E.72nd-W.102)-11:09 (5:48/5:21), 1M-5:16, 3x3 LP (2 rest). rough w/coughing/congestion, but on the mend.

6/27/2008 15.4 a.m. 1; p.m. 14.4-most in CP-10.5 in 1:18:20. very humid, pretty hot. chest still congested.

6/28/2008 15 CP-13.4 in 1:42:57. p.m. another .4

6/29/2008 16 CP-~13.6-1:42:32 nicer than Saturday.

Week Total 82.3

6/30/2008 13.1 last run in Manhattan for awhile. CP-8 in 57:55.

7/1/2008 3.5 to LIC to pick up moving truck. lots of heavy lifting and stair climbing, but little running. drove all night to get to VT.

7/2/2008 1.2 Burlington, VT-ran back home after dropping moving truck off. just made plane to D.C.

7/3/2008 3 26:31 Alexandria, VA-t/f Giant Foods for Gatorade. dehydration headache from moving. couldn't get away later for a real run.

7/4/2008 18 2:24:24 Alexandria, VA-D.C. Mall/3rd St. and back. annoying security fences on the Mall. humid/hot. suffered near end.

7/5/2008 14 1:43:00 Alexandria, VA-D.C.-Library of Congress, etc.

7/6/2008 9 1:43:00 Charlottesville, VA-a.m. 3+-25:00-Rivanna Trail; p.m. <6-40:37 (23:34/17:03)-Seminole Trail (a road)-cut short by lightning/tornado warning.

Week Total 61.8

7/7/2008 13 1:34:16 Charlottesville, VA-Rivanna Trail--out past Charlottesville HS, +extra unmarked trail. hard on the return.

7/8/2008 14.5 1:44:38 Burlington, VT-left D.C. early, unpacking starts. Lake Champlain, north to Colchester and back.

7/9/2008 12.5 Burlington, VT-a.m. 3-UVM campus loop; p.m. 9.5-1:22. UVM-Eastwood path-couldn,t find a track.

7/10/2008 14.3 VT-a.m. .5M errand; 4.3M-40:40 p.m. 9.5M-1:11-w/6M tempo on Lake-36:39 (6:07)-6:42,6:30,6:02,6:01,5:44,5:40. 29:57 last 5, 23:27 last 4. salvaged bad week.

7/11/2008 10.5 Burlington, VT-5M w/stroller; Lebanon, NH-1.1 M; near Northwood, NH-.9M; Durham, NH-3.5M. ran when I had a chance.

7/12/2008 17 2:20:55 Durham, NH: up in night w/baby, so skipped local 5k.

7/13/2008 18.5 2:44:03 Durham, NH-early afternoon slog.

Week: 100.3

7/14/2008 14.7 a.m. Durham, NH-Dover, NH-5.5M-44:41;

p.m. Burlington, VT-9.2M-1:05:05 (middle 7 in 46:48 (7:30,6:55,6:52,6:27,6:31,6:25,6:08). being passed early helped. felt pretty easy, like I'm getting back in shape.

it would help if anyone knew anything about getting some 1:15-1:16ish 1/2 Marathoners to train with up in Burlington, VT, or at least who knew where an outdoor track is. UVM destroyed one turn of its old cinder track to make a new complex, so that old track is not useable for anything over 300m, and if the new complex has a track, it is currently invisible beneath lacrosse turf. as it stands, I'll do half mile or mile repeats on the lakefront bikepath, which is marked every half mile.

also, good to see you getting healthy, boingo.

tuesday 14.5

a.m. 5.5M very slow w/stroller, plus lake swim.

p.m. 9M w/half mile-2:49 uphill, break/stretch,

5xMile w/1 min jog recoveries:

5:54 (up),5:31,5:37,5:34(down),5:43(down).

all on bike path, solo. could have been worse. started slow, so decided to do short rest and increase the number of intervals. hoping to see improvement next week.

eddylee wrote:

This coming track season I have a goal of sub 4:00 in the 1500. I will use this thread for advise and motivation.

PRs:

800-2:00.56(last spring)

1500-4:16(last spring)

mile-4:40(last spring)

5k-16:22(this fall)

10k-36:00(this fall)

half marathon-1:17:30(this fall)

I'm not going to read the whole thread, so could you tell me what your PRs are now? I'm assuming you haven't broken 4 for the 1500, though I could be wrong.

409 1500 this past spring

...no other prs

anyone think i can break 1700 for the 5k right now?

6x1mile repeats w/ 1min rest

604,559,559,605,610,606

anyone think i can break 1700 for the 5k right now?

6x1mile repeats w/ 1min rest

604,559,559,605,610,606