2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

100m 11.2ish with running start 200m 22high, 400m 49.5 from the blocks.

I m around 1.52 shape right now.

Kb. wrote:

100m 11.2ish with running start 200m 22high, 400m 49.5 from the blocks.

I m around 1.52 shape right now.

Write me back at

and we will see what I can do for you.Cheers! :)

- The Magician-

Everything still keeps going to my plan for Phil......today another great workout 15 x 400m at 66-67 sec average and the first 8 of them with a rest down to 120 bpm in less than 60 sec ! This is a pace and rest that combined with right LT interval pace will give a 5 k around 14 min ! …..and then a 10 k around 29 min ! …….and now we are talking times faster than the goal in December at 2:19 . This is very interesting! This is the way my coaching usually goes with fast improvement…...So far ,so good.

-Magic Winter-

serious question, does running this many 400m repeats get boring? i imagine it could make some workouts mentally tougher. phil is basically on the once a runner training plan. I can't wait to see the results of his 60 x 400m workout.

this does look like an awesome week. I ran my fastest 400m in 64s on tired legs (day after a 20 miler) and my 1k pr (done during a mile run) is 3:15. You blow all of this out of the water repeatedly and make it look easy!

How did you feel after those sessions? Are your legs sore and how is recovery going? How long does your recovery after such a workout take? Is it shorter now than when you started doing these sessions? or similar?

It is very exciting to see the improvements over time. Stay fast, stay healthy!

Cheers

Dril wrote:

serious question, does running this many 400m repeats get boring? i imagine it could make some workouts mentally tougher. phil is basically on the once a runner training plan. I can't wait to see the results of his 60 x 400m workout.

I could see how it could be boring for some people, but i don’t find it boring. I’ve always liked loops and doing the same routes over and over again. In college I’d do long runs on the indoor track sometimes when the footing was really bad. I’d do 15 laps around my neighborhood last winter when the temps were colder than -20. I do 3-4 loops for my long runs. I was also doing 20x400 about once a month before working with J.S.

As I told before I wanted to coach Philip because his PB:s remind me of my own running career back in the -80s, and now I have got an opportunity to see how good I could have been if I had known then what I know today. We are also very similar

when it comes to this thinking repeated same workouts , but with different stimulus from week to week when it comes to amount of reps and pace , is no problem and instead very inspiring to directly compare and see a clear improvement from week to week , month to month and so on. I myself used to have a training course of five miles that I used to run two laps most easy runs I did with every kilometer marked . And if we study the training of Kipchoge we see the same repeated kind of training week after week…..

- Magic winter coming up -

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

Everything still keeps going to my plan for Phil......today another great workout 15 x 400m at 66-67 sec average and the first 8 of them with a rest down to 120 bpm in less than 60 sec ! This is a pace and rest that combined with right LT interval pace will give a 5 k around 14 min ! …..and then a 10 k around 29 min ! …….and now we are talking times faster than the goal in December at 2:19 . This is very interesting! This is the way my coaching usually goes with fast improvement…...So far ,so good.

-Magic Winter-

He is certainly running some very strong workouts, I would have thought that he has well under 14 30 fitness for 5k now and under 30 mins for 10k when you see how fast he is recovering between reps. In fact I thought he could have run faster for his 10 miles race (Sub 50) but he did say that the race had hills so it is hard to evalute when just sitting behind a computer. I don't how this will convert to a marathon however as I wonder whether more basic mileage is needed for the longer distance. Anyway thanks for sharing your training in this thread, it is inspiring for us regular runners just to read about someone working hard and improving their fitness, whatever training system they are using.

Yes...nice comment. And with this training system the runner don`t need to work hard in the sense of high mileage and a lot of time needed. Only one session per day and one day off in the week and just enough what it takes to reach the goal. It`s mostly a pace thing to reach your optimal performance this effective way.I ran myself just 6 sessions per week and did 14:20/ 29:51 at 5k/ 10 k and 1:06:47 / 2:22.09 at half/ marathon without the perfect LT workouts. The LT-intervals is the main difference why I didn`t run 1: 04/ 2:13 at half/ marathon . - Magic! He is just magic!- :)

-The Wizard -

One more very fine workout by Phil today…. LT interval 18 x 800m . Fast recovery…. I let him tell about it :)

- The Magician -

Hey JS. What was your training like back when you ran those times? It would be interesting to see how you've changed your system since then. You mentioned the LT intervals. What did you instead or differently. A sample week would be most interesting. Cheers.

interested reader wrote:

He is certainly running some very strong workouts, I would have thought that he has well under 14 30 fitness for 5k now and under 30 mins for 10k when you see how fast he is recovering between reps. In fact I thought he could have run faster for his 10 miles race (Sub 50) but he did say that the race had hills so it is hard to evalute when just sitting behind a computer. I don't how this will convert to a marathon however as I wonder whether more basic mileage is needed for the longer distance. Anyway thanks for sharing your training in this thread, it is inspiring for us regular runners just to read about someone working hard and improving their fitness, whatever training system they are using.

I do feel like I haven’t fully put things together in a race yet. At this time 2 years ago I was only in 17:45 5k shape. I’m also just starting to race at a relatively high level for the first time since probably 2013. My theory is that my body has great fitness, but hasn’t quite adjusted to the demands of racing yet? Idk if that’s a thing, but it makes sense to me.

18x800 this morning in the dark before work. I’m real good at early morning easy runs and long runs, but intervals in the dark are pretty tough. Overall felt good but I just couldn’t get in a fast enough rhythm to hit the goal pace of 2:26-2:28.

18x800

2:32.0, 43.7

2:28.0, 53.2

2:31.4, 48.4

2:30.7, 52.8

2:31.7, 49.7

2:31.5, 49.2

2:32.4, 44.4

2:31.9, 44.7

2:32.9, 50.9

2:32.7, 50.0

2:32.1, 49.3

2:32.0, 56.2

2:31.6, 58.9

2:33.4, 53.2

2:34.1, 49.5

2:32.2, 58.0

2:32.9, 58.9

2:31.8, 53.6

Good day

*interesting note. Ran 14x800 on the same course on my day off in the daylight in 11/6/18. Ran 15:48 a week after.

2:38, 36,

2:38, 38,

2:43, 34,

2:48, 1:51 (changed into flats),

2:41, 43,

2:39, 44,

2:41, 43,

2:42, 44,

2:35, 40,

2:40, 43,

2:42, 44,

2:45, 44,

2:37, 45,

2:39

Okey! Here we go:

Monday: 16 k at 4:00 min / km

Tuesday: 20 x 400m at 68 sec , rest back to 120 bpm

Wednesday: 12 k at 4:00 min/ km

Thursday: Threshold ,10-12 k at 3:15 min/ km

Friday: 16 k at 4:00 min/ km

Saturday : 32 k at 4:00min / km

Sunday: Day off

Here we easy see that the sustained threshold at 3:15 / km is the main difference together with just running a long run at same pace all distance, not a specific long run with fast finish for a better half/ marathon …….and no LT intervals at faster pace ( I should run 3:08 pace back then ) :)

Thank you for your response. That's interesting. I was expecting to see something more drastically different from your training of OP.

Was that LT session as a continuous run then?

NorCalSux wrote:

Look up Nathan Kwan on strava. He is a guy who just ran 63:40 at San Jose Half. He is running CIM and will probably run faster than what you described. He rarely goes over 80mpw of running.

He never ran for his college. They didn’t want him. He ran for the club team. He was a low 4:20/9:30ish guy in HS I believe. Before you say “must have been super talented,” he came from a HS notorious for being well trained and doing solid mileage down in Orange County. He just put his head down and worked over the last couple years.

wow...didn't see that Nathan had run 63min at RNR SJ. I used to race against him in college, both of us on club teams. To say that the college coach didn't want him is BS though (according to his own club teammates who I have spoken to). I recall that he ran 23:59 or something at the Bronco Invite 8k in maybe 2015/2016 (very fast course) and then ran maybe 14:20s for the 5000m around the same timeframe. Interesting to see that he's now run an OTQ the hard way!

Not to pick on JS as it sounds like he was a very good runner, but the 1:06:47/2:22:09 half and full times indicate at least a small drop off. And honestly I’d expect that given this lower mileage, faster training. I just hope this same thing doesn’t show itself with Phil’s times. We know he could rock a fast 10k or half right now, but hopefully the long runs are enough to extend that success out to the marathon.

Yes

And that sustained pace for 10 -12 km at 3:15/ km will not give the same positive effect as 3:08 min/ km …..It`s a huge difference what happens in the muscle cells and with the energy process.....I should have been able to run at least 1:06:47 x 2 + 5 min = 2:18:34 at marathon……..faster if all 3 main factors had been better.

Cool analysis. Yea, I like the boost from LT sessions.

Do you think you’d have been able to go sub 14?

What do you think is the basic 400/800m speed needed to break 14 in the 5k?

Cheers for the discussion