You made a point a few pages back that you didn't understand why people thought you were doing backflips for Jerry. You then pointed out that you made a Burrito Track Club shirt which is on sale for $30 on this site. Still, it says that all proceeds go to Shelby which in a sense makes it a "charity" for Shelby's defense fund or whatever you call it. Being that all the money is going to Shelby from those shirt sales, would you care to disclose to all of us how much money Letsrun has sent to Shelby from money raised on this site? For the sake of journalistic integrity, I think that info should be made available to all of us since Letsrun is being used as a de facto vehicle for her economic support and defense (at least it looks that way to me). Lastly, have you considered that providing a vehicle to support a banned athlete compromises your journalistic integrity completely?
interesting point. unless of course she ISN'T actually training with BTC (never been confirmed by GDS, other than there may have been overlap as someone arrived/departed for training and SH has said she's training alone at the bottom of her statement). and self-awareness would suggest GDS could have... I dunno... had a conversation with her former teammate and training partner that she put up a support post for last year.
the fact that she hasn't spoken to her (at all) suggests that they probably don't actually overlap/see each other. but good on you for praising one athlete for prioritising mental health for leaving, and criticising the other for trying to maintain her mental health by training (alone)
Not sure how you came away possibly believing that there was no overlap whatsoever. Clearly there WAS overlap, when you read both perspectives as that's the whole thing that GDS was upset about.
"Training alone" seems to have multiple definitions don't it. I don't consider tagging along with BTC on their altitude camps and continuing to be coached by Jerry as "alone". She shouldn't be around the group at all, and it seems like she was.
The Brojos love to say "professional sport isn't a human right" and I know they are saying this in a different context, but it applies here. Professional sport is not a human right. Her mental health should not hinge on being a part of a group she was banned from, in the same way a fired employee shouldn't be able to return to the office they worked at to preserve their mental health. Shelby was clearly impeding on others training to preserve, selfishly, her own mental health. If she and Jerry wanted to exploit some loophole where he could continue writing her workouts so be it. But she could train in Portland or somewhere different. She shouldn't be hanging around the group at all since she's banned.
I want to say one final thing here. And this is for all the people who believe themselves to be social justice champions. The bias that you have towards Shelby, the belief you hold that she was wronged with no evidence, the excuses you make on her behalf to act like the rules don't apply to her is just as bad, and in many ways worse than someone who is an open bigot. Your bias props up systems that allows some people to get away with things that others cannot. Your bias hinges on Shelby being someone you can "relate to". Therefore, Shelby suffering consequences for her actions is hard for you to fathom. I really want people to think about why they are supporting her. If they can offer actual evidence of her being wronged, please bring it to the table. But so far that hasn't happened.
Guys T&F is rife with athletes using PEDs. ALL of the top runners are looking for ways to get faster. I would be surprised to find any top level runner who is natural, seriously. If you do a little digging you can see that SO many of them have been caught or you can just connect the dots.. BTC, NOP, Jamaica, Eth, nigeria, russia, norway etc... all of them are doping it's just the way it is. The righteous indignation from some posters is hilarious. SH, GDS, SR, etc.. all are trying to enhance their performances- pushing the boundry. It's more about how much of what can you take before it shows up. Or when do you have to stop taking it so it doesn't show up. I bet the testing and oversight at BTC was becoming an issue for some athletes..
And why haven't Jerry and Shalane put out a statement on behalf of the BTC since GDS's was published?
Seriously. Jerry needs to drop this whole JD Salinger hiding from the public and address this issue ASAP. He's doing a serious disservice to his other athletes each day that passes without making a statement.
Agreed. Houlihan's statement raises more questions than anything else. If you want us to root for you, BTC, answer them: To what extent are Jerry and Shalane coaching her? Is she working out at the same time as other BTC athletes? When is the last time she went on a run with them, period? I've given them the benefit of the doubt but clearly there is much more we don't know that was enough to push GDS to leave, and it's enough that I'm reluctant to support any remaining BTC athletes.
Guys T&F is rife with athletes using PEDs. ALL of the top runners are looking for ways to get faster. I would be surprised to find any top level runner who is natural, seriously. If you do a little digging you can see that SO many of them have been caught or you can just connect the dots.. BTC, NOP, Jamaica, Eth, nigeria, russia, norway etc... all of them are doping it's just the way it is. The righteous indignation from some posters is hilarious. SH, GDS, SR, etc.. all are trying to enhance their performances- pushing the boundry. It's more about how much of what can you take before it shows up. Or when do you have to stop taking it so it doesn't show up. I bet the testing and oversight at BTC was becoming an issue for some athletes..
This is the truth that no one wants to hear. Most people will admit that doping is ubiquitous in high level sports but when it comes to track and field letsrun turns a blind eye.
I wonder how much details Staford gave to her teammates during this initial period in December and prior to her departure.
In Merber's Lapcount interview with her, GDS says that at the end of the fall "conversations were had between athletes and staff."
Seems like she wasn't the only one with issues, so I doubt she's saying anything anyone hasn't heard before on the team. If she didn't hear about the ban until June and that Jerry was coaching her til they started training again (October?), I also doubt Gabriela and Lucia were the only athletes on the whole team not included. Seems like there's an in circle and an outer circle info wise.
Would be a good question to BTC athletes - did you attend any formal or informal meetings in the fall to discuss issues with Shelby's ban with either staff or other athletes?
I wonder how much details Staford gave to her teammates during this initial period in December and prior to her departure.
In Merber's Lapcount interview with her, GDS says that at the end of the fall "conversations were had between athletes and staff."
Seems like she wasn't the only one with issues, so I doubt she's saying anything anyone hasn't heard before on the team. If she didn't hear about the ban until June and that Jerry was coaching her til they started training again (October?), I also doubt Gabriela and Lucia were the only athletes on the whole team not included. Seems like there's an in circle and an outer circle info wise.
Would be a good question to BTC athletes - did you attend any formal or informal meetings in the fall to discuss issues with Shelby's ban with either staff or other athletes?
Look at the fortright questions Kyle Merber asked, and the way GDS answered the questions; thsn look at LRC's ridiculous framing of the story.
The LRC story LEADS by exonerating the rest of the club. Their fierst priority is to minimize anyone else's involvement. The second point is to try to make the case that Jerry coacxhing Shelby right now isn't prohibited. The entire LRC story is basically set up to say Shelby and BTC aren't doing anything wrong, but GDS was uncomfortable with it, so she left.
Kyle's interview makes it much clearer that this was a prolonged problem, GDS was uncomfortable raising it because she had just joined and moved and was prerparing for the Olympics, and finally, because Jerry and Shelby were so "none of your business" about it, she took a stand.
Rule of thumb: if LRC reports something, find 6 other sources.
Yeah I think Jerry's inactions are telling and more so the reason why GDS left. He knows what nandy candy is and lied about that, which undermines the integrity of the sport. Although I don't believe Shelby, I am in favor of her having some support. That shows who her true friends are and perhaps they legitimately believe her. But people believe lies all the time. Look at religion and the big pharma scheme of covid hysteria for example.
Your focusing entirely on the MB side of this story. In the past two years, we have heard publicly from a dozen or so U of G alums about abuse they claim to have suffered at the hands of DST and his IST over a number of years. In their statement, they claim to have made numerous formal complaints over the that were not responded to by the U of G. It's therefore not just me asking questions concerning who knew what, when (indeed, who DID what, when) over the almost 20 years DST was at the helm. Stellingwerf worked as closely with DST as anyone apart from Chris Moulton over a number of years, and owes his start in IST directly to DST. He may not be guilty of anything at all, but he, like everyone else around during those years, has questions to answer-- questions that a proper investigation would directly entail.
Guys T&F is rife with athletes using PEDs. ALL of the top runners are looking for ways to get faster. I would be surprised to find any top level runner who is natural, seriously. If you do a little digging you can see that SO many of them have been caught or you can just connect the dots.. BTC, NOP, Jamaica, Eth, nigeria, russia, norway etc... all of them are doping it's just the way it is. The righteous indignation from some posters is hilarious. SH, GDS, SR, etc.. all are trying to enhance their performances- pushing the boundry. It's more about how much of what can you take before it shows up. Or when do you have to stop taking it so it doesn't show up. I bet the testing and oversight at BTC was becoming an issue for some athletes..
Dopers don't move between teams and countries. They stay where their secrets are hidden. I'd 100% guarantee that GDS is absolutely clean. If she wasn't. something would have come out.
Guys T&F is rife with athletes using PEDs. ALL of the top runners are looking for ways to get faster. I would be surprised to find any top level runner who is natural, seriously. If you do a little digging you can see that SO many of them have been caught or you can just connect the dots.. BTC, NOP, Jamaica, Eth, nigeria, russia, norway etc... all of them are doping it's just the way it is. The righteous indignation from some posters is hilarious. SH, GDS, SR, etc.. all are trying to enhance their performances- pushing the boundry. It's more about how much of what can you take before it shows up. Or when do you have to stop taking it so it doesn't show up. I bet the testing and oversight at BTC was becoming an issue for some athletes..
Dopers don't move between teams and countries. They stay where their secrets are hidden. I'd 100% guarantee that GDS is absolutely clean. If she wasn't. something would have come out.
Yeah, burning a lot of bridges in Beaverton is not what you’d do if you had a big secret to hide.
you forget you are talking about human beings in these situations until it hits close to home and you are forced to think about it.
Sad situation all around. hopefully everybody can find peace. Even those who are responsible for creating it.
Bingo. In everything in 2022, people are forgetting about humanity, that the "other side" of an argument is made up of real people.
High hopes wrote:
The best coaches in sports across the world put the team first and Jerry is now burying the team so that he can maintain the presence of a doper around the group.
Yes, you are right. Most coaches wouldn't do what Jerry is doing. Think about this for a moment. Why would he do that? It makes zero sense for him to keep her around. If he knows she's dirty and the group is dirty, you just keep paying her and tell her to shut the F up.
You've forgotten the humanity of the situation.
You wrote that Jerry is doing so he "can maintain the presence of a doper around the group." What? Why would he do that? That just hurts the group PR wise. I'd argue Jerry is doing it so he he "doesn't abandon someone he respects a great deal whom he believes is being ROYALLY screwed."
Again go back to the question I posed yesterday of ,"Do you think the WHOLE group is dirty or not?" If you think he's a dirty coach, then none of this applies but I think there is close to zero percent chance the group is a totally dirty group.
And if you are a clean coach and one of your stars whom you are very close to, whom has bought into your plan totally for 5 years, gets popped and you think it's totally unfair, you are going to react differently. It's emotional.
I've been talking about how the world is often grey not black and white but Jerry is more black and white. This is what you need to run to be world class - do it. He thought what Alberto was doing was crazy and said no and they split. He thinks Shelby is being railroaded and the system is totally F**ed and innocent athletes are going down.
PR wise, he should have reacted differently, "Under the rules, she's out. I believe in my heart she's innocent. And i"m going to devote my career to reform the anti-doping movement because it's a sham. I worked closely with a coach who was looking for a phamaceutical edge and he got away with it for years. We are trying to do things the right way and now our star athlete is out. I'm going to lead the way with a $100,000 donation."
Yes, I totally see that what Schumacher is doing comes from a place of (very misplaced) compassion. I have no problem with him showing solidarity with Houlihan, even writing her training plans on a private basis. It is a HUGE problem when that compassion compromises the many other athletes he coaches. It brushes the edges of what is permissible for her to be training in the same place and time as the group, and I don't know how else to interpret the comment by GDS that her suggestion that Houlihan train 30 minutes earlier or later was rejected (seriously, if she isn't training 30 minute earlier or later than the main group, how is she training separately?).
I also don't get how you can be so stuck on Houlihan's needs and her feelings as a human, but so impassive about the feelings of ally he other athletes in that group, some of whom will be reticent to speak up because their contract/position may depend on it.
The burrito shirt proceeds go to Shelby!? What the f lrc? That does compromise journalistic integrity. And also. Why!?!?
This is the exact verbiage copied from the shopping page for the Burrito Track Club shirt: Celebrate the absurdity of being a modern-day track fan by purchasing this BURRITO Track Club t-shirt. 100% of the profits made from this shirt will be sent to Shelby Houlihan directly. The link is here if you want to see the whole thing: https://shop.letsrun.com/collections/frontpage/products/burrito-track-club-shirt.
I think we all deserve to know how much money Letsrun has sent to Shelby or is planning to send her. I think it raises all sorts of questions regarding bias, conflict of interest, and compromise of journalistic integrity if the site is being used as a vehicle to support a banned athlete. It's all kinds of 5 fire alarms weird and unethical optics. Am I going over the top here? Rojo, you've got to explain how this makes sense because I can't.