DiscoGary-
Are you in the red or yellow shirt? Wish I could have been in on that process!! I did my own study right after the State Meet one year and and was very close to your findings, which made everyone mad.
https://il.milesplit.com/articles/247559/the-detweiller-report-a-look-back-in-course-measurement
Their 5th isn't that great really. And only 3 are equivalent to Ritz but they did just go 1-2-3 you know.
Nike is knocking wrote:
Their 5th isn't that great really. And only 3 are equivalent to Ritz but they did just go 1-2-3 you know.
But the top FIVE at that meet all ran as fast as Ritz on grass!
Yeah, their 5th would only be the #1 guy at 99% of the schools in the country!!
You said NP had 5 equivalent to Ritz. That isn't true. They only have 3. And this course is lightning fast if you didn't realize. If you are now saying that it isn't, that's great.
Nike is knocking wrote:
You said NP had 5 equivalent to Ritz. That isn't true. They only have 3. And this course is lightning fast if you didn't realize. If you are now saying that it isn't, that's great.
My bad! I have been so used to seeing all the NP guys up front I forget that the 4th and 5th finishers were from other teams.
Nike is knocking wrote:
The course owners and meet organizers have had nobody questioning the course length. I don't know what you are referring to. Do you have an email or document from the NFHS or a coach or a state athletic union? This is the first that I have heard about it. If you are going to make claims like that, be prepared to back them up with facts.
25 pages and this is the first you have heard of it?
Nike is knocking wrote:
No. There is no onus. The record has been posted. Everyone is on their break preparing for track. You just don't seem to get that nobody has to convince you. Hutchins and Sahlman are the record holders and both were set at the same course. See how easy it was to state that? You can argue about it until next year but it doesn't change the facts.
Why so upset? To truly verify a record don't you feel the distance should be verified? Not sue why anyone would be concerned about this if so confident that the course is legit.
Nike is knocking wrote:
Are you new here? They already ran 8:40s as sophomores and juniors.
Where can I find the list of sub 8:50 sophomores and juniors from last year?
Been a bit of talk of the NCAA region at Huntsville justifying the course length. I went back and compared Regional Times vs. NCAA times for the Men's 10k. Most regions had 20-30 runners run both at Regionals and Nationals, eliminating any outliers, here are the average time differences:
(+ values = faster Regional course, - values = slower Regional course)
Waco -0:46
Iowa City -0:46
Provo -0:25
Franklin Park -0:15
Lehigh -0:05
Huntsville +0:11
Sacramento +0:11
Angel Mounds +0:16
Louisville +0:22
This doesn't make any conclusion for the HS race other than showing the course ran fast. I doubt the course is short, but it's definitely faster than most on these small samples.
They ran fast. Course must be short!
Yeah, calling the course short is the wrong adjective. The course is fast, just as Tallahasee, Tom Sawyer, and Angel Mounds.
BTW on another note, just because the NCAA regional is run at a place doesn't make the course accurate. At Angel Mounds, they added about 50m from the D2 Regional to the D1 Regional. Even the NCAA courses are prone to errors.
Ghost of Ward Cleaver wrote:
Steel Tapeless wrote:
I apologize if I got you and some other poster confused that stated that the NFHS and NCAA had officials involved in the course so it had to right.
Everyone states that Running Lane was super smooth with a steam roller surface that was almost like a track or road.
Now tell me why you can not calibrate your jones counter on that course and get a very accurate course measurement.
It really shouldn't be hard at all if you have actually certified several road courses, right?
It surprises me that a steam roller could go through mud? Does anyone have photos/video of them steam rolling the course? How large of a steam roller? Seems like a great idea if it doesn't over compact the ground and cause the running surface to be lower the the surrounding ground. I wonder how much of a hill a steam roller can climb?
I don’t think this is a steam roller, but it is a roller, and yes it goes through the mud.
https://www.instagram.com/runninglane/p/CW811rwvtWJ/?utm_medium=copy_linkThe course is always maintained very well. A few mud spots occasionally but for the most part it drains very well.
Coach, does the steel tape get a temperature correction? I remember from surveying class there is a temperature correction that needs to be applied for steel tape measurements. Even that could be inaccurate over the course of 3 miles if a temperature correction isn't applied.
Yes 75 meters short. Probably 10-12 seconds.
Very good runners still.
I was hoping it was 100 meters short. That would drive some of you bonkers to have the record set on a short course.
wetpits wrote:
Coach, does the steel tape get a temperature correction? I remember from surveying class there is a temperature correction that needs to be applied for steel tape measurements. Even that could be inaccurate over the course of 3 miles if a temperature correction isn't applied.
For every mile, every degree F of temperature change will add or subtract 0.4” based on common thermal expansion coefficients for steel. So for a 10 degree F difference from the calibrated temperature over 3.1 miles the steel tape would be off a little over a foot (12.76”).
Joe Jackson wrote:
wetpits wrote:
Coach, does the steel tape get a temperature correction? I remember from surveying class there is a temperature correction that needs to be applied for steel tape measurements. Even that could be inaccurate over the course of 3 miles if a temperature correction isn't applied.
For every mile, every degree F of temperature change will add or subtract 0.4” based on common thermal expansion coefficients for steel. So for a 10 degree F difference from the calibrated temperature over 3.1 miles the steel tape would be off a little over a foot (12.76”).
Hey kids, listen and learn.
Joe Jackson wrote:
wetpits wrote:
Coach, does the steel tape get a temperature correction? I remember from surveying class there is a temperature correction that needs to be applied for steel tape measurements. Even that could be inaccurate over the course of 3 miles if a temperature correction isn't applied.
For every mile, every degree F of temperature change will add or subtract 0.4” based on common thermal expansion coefficients for steel. So for a 10 degree F difference from the calibrated temperature over 3.1 miles the steel tape would be off a little over a foot (12.76”).
Very insignificant amounts. Thanks, just curious.
Steel Tapeless wrote:
Another giver of +1 wrote:
With a 100 meter steel tape on the straight parts between tangents, Jones counter bike on corners and dips/mounds. That will be +/- 20 meters.
What do you mean +/- 20 meters?
Within 20 meters of 5000m using the steel tape and Jones counter method.
Another giver of +1 wrote:
Steel Tapeless wrote:
What do you mean +/- 20 meters?
Within 20 meters of 5000m using the steel tape and Jones counter method.
You will have your Jones Counter confiscated if you are off that much...that's an automatic redo!