Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Trackhead,

I must be missing something.

Can you explain why Coe running with 200 meter sprinters means he was running 100 miles a week?

trackhead wrote:

my arguement is that Coe averaged ~3000mi/yr and would get as high as ~90mi in a week.

Based on the fact that Coe didn't count warmups/cooldowns (let's say 2x2mi 3 times per week) and didn't count a morning 8km jog (because it was jogging, and let's guess four times per week) gives an additional 32mi to the typically quoted 60mi/90km figure gives right around 80-90mi weeks.

3,000 miles a year -- that's the ticket.

BTW -- next time I talk with Snell I'll ask him but he has assured me on at least two occasions that the "low volume" idea associated with Seb coe is, in his own words, "bullshit."

No. What is bullshit though is the two mile warmups and 8km jogs that you pull straight out of your ass.

I'm saying that just because you run with pure 200m runners doesn't mean that you're not putting in some volume.

Weekly I do 400m specific work, sometimes with pure sprinters, but that doesn't preclude me from putting in the volume.

So Seb didn't warmup before his workouts, nor cooldown afterwards? Seem'd like a pretty meticulous guy to me.

I'm going with Peter Snell on this -- he talked to Seb about this and this is what he came away with.

3000 miles a year is only 57 miles a week. How could he not run that much on average? Unless he took multiple days off a week, I cant see how he wouldnt hit that much...

exactly -- it's not that hard; and to periodize it:

it would mean up to the mid80s during the base building season, and as low as 30-40 during the racing season

Five 10 week cycles

FALL BASE 750mi

WINTER TRACK 550mi

SPRING BASE 800mi

PRE-TRACK 600mi

TRACK 400mi

===================

3100 miles

What makes you think Coe didn't include his warmups, warmdowns and steady runs in his mileage?

According to his training before the Los Angeles Games, these were all included.

His usual cooldown after hard reps and races was 2 laps.

according to the logs provided in BTDR, they weren't.

trackhand: Why second-hand info all the time?? Instead call Seb or Peter and discuss the subject with them, they will give you first-hand info and no one here can argue with that. Or find out Seb's e-mail, if you don't have the guts to make that call...

i've got no problem going straight to the source

where's the contact info?

I have seen parts of Sebs training diary - in his own handwriting.

You are correct, he did not count the cooldowns or warmups. Quite heavy total load - lots of weight training and very hard track workouts (plus long hard road intervalls/continuos runs). The mileage on those logs, about 60-70 miles in the winter, down to 30-40 in the summer, with some weeks higher.

I have also spoken to Peter and Seb himself about this and it has been confirmed by them on that direct question.

Marius

www.mariusbakken.com

60-70 including warmups/cooldowns?

I will back this up too. My wife was a PE Teacher at Abbeydale Grange Grammar during Coe's time there.Plus the coe's were near neighbours to her folks.

She felt he was covering "quite a few miles" and also mentioned the long Intervals on Rivelin Road when she was back there in the early 80's.

Graves Park another favorite.

"My best friends hardresser once cut Sebs hair, she's not an athlete or a coach but she judged by the angles on the nape of his neck that he was running at least 150mi a wk. She wasnt sure if this included warm-ups or warm-downs however." - A.N. Other

Is it important to the important and general discussion on mileage/base-training if Seb did/did-not run many miles?

If I was to eliminate one athlete's training from the plethora of anecdotal training logs it would be Sebs. Not only are his logs inconsistent they are also relevant ONLY for similar genetical freaks.

Seb would have succeeded (to varying degress perhaps) had he run 20, 30, 60 or 200mi a wk.

I remember in Coe's biography, that during his buildup for Moscow he was running 80mi./week. So if he did not count warmups and had 2-3 hard sessions with 2mi warm up and warm down we are talking about 88-92mi./wk. What he did before 1984 one has to remember that he was coming back from a serious illness so he probably could not do as high of volume as he did in the past.

However he did it obviously it takes hardwork and there are no shortcuts.

to add to your point, he was able to come back in '84 having missed much of the winter that year because of all the work that he had done over the years.

Sorry guys, ALL you have is conjecture and 3rd hand speculations. THAT'S IT. Really.

Trackhead, where on earth did you pull the 3,000 or 3100 miles a year figure from???

And to the guy who quotes the "80 miles a week before Moscow" from his bio, PLEASE give us the exact quote where it states: I ran 80/80+ miles a week prior to Moscow. And then for Trackhead's sake, the exact quote where he states: and this did not include the warm-up miles that I always ran before each run. Give it to us in black and white.

Trackhead, besides the fact that you do seem to really believe this idea (that Seb ran base mileage weeks in the range of 80-100 miles per week often), let me ask you this: why do you WANT to believe it so much(and you clearly DO want to believe it badly)?? So Seb can fit into a neat little training scheme that says everyone trains the same way??? Clearly that is NOT reality. Different runners train different ways. There are MANY paths that lead to the summit, many ways to skin a cat. Yes, there always similarities within top runners programs, but there are also often very severe differences. So no matter what JK or others say (JK of the school of thought that there is ONLY ONE WAY to reach the top), there are actually different ways that suit different athletes. For every training scheme you embark on, it is an experiment of one, and you will NEVER know if you could have done things a little differently that might have helped you improve. And it also true that for each training scheme/plan that one undertakes, it will end up favoring one principle over another. So every training plan is imperfect. Seb's might have been low on volume, but it was high on speed (not necessarily lactic acid buffering work all the time, but FAST running), power, muscle elasticity, and explosiveness. It worked wonders for him. With more volume could he have run under 3:29 for 1500?? Quite possibly. But if he had always trained that way (higher volume), might he not have run 1:41?? Again, quite possibly.

But in the end, please do not try and re-write history.

And yes, that was post # 500 on this thread. I deserve a gold star or something. :) (more than simple t-shirt because 500 is an accomplishment, right??)