Amby Burfoot says it out loud - Chepngetich is doping

long jump is a technical skill sport. Jupiter aligned with mars

Andy, respectfully,

Your competitive history is suss off the charts. None of your performances at any distance indicated you were capable of a 2:14 marathon. Dont try to blame the heat at Boston. Was the heat responsible for all of your lackluster races?

Runner A
2:18:35
2:17:08
2:22:31
2:17:18
2:14:18
2:18:08
2:15:37
2:09:56 ( -4:22)

Runner B
2:34:09
2:24:43
2:31:41
2:28:05
2:22:17
2:14:28 ( -7:49)

At the time, none of those performances preceding the 2:14 would have been considered lackluster and the jump from a near solo 2:22 over a hilly course on warm day to 2:14 in a pack on a cool day over a flat course isn't surprising.

Get real. At the time all of Amby's times were lackluster.

Between Boston and Fukuoka he ran 1:25:55 25km 5:32/mi, 58:23 18.6km 5:03/mi, 22:34 7.64km 4:45/mi. Nothing to indicate a 2:14 marathon.

After Fukuoka he was back to his usual form 2:39:37, 2:25:28, 2:35:37.

He was out of school and working after Fukuoka and not racing as much or as seriously. By the mid 70s he ran a couple 2:18s, was something like 9th or 10th at the '76 Olympic Trial and had a low 1:30 30km. That 30k done at 5:03 pace is certainly consistent with a mid two teens marathon. People have career days at times.

But none of this has any bearing on the claim that Chepnegetich was doping. If you really want to cling to this business of suggesting that "Andy" was doping you might well conclude that having done it himself he'd be well positioned to recognize someone else who was.

What a ridiculous deflection for posters to question Burfoot's progression. Chepngetich's record was unbelievable - literally - and she has now confirmed it with her doping violation. She also comes from a nation of sports dopers. Only wilful blindness won't see it.

Burfoot only broke 2:20 twice. The other time was 2:18:56 in 1976. Twice out of 20-30 marathons. That 5:03 race was 18.7km not 30km. 5:03 for 11 miles sucks. His record is the most suspicious of anyone out there. Nothing about his career indicates he was capable of 2:14. Chepnegetich still has the WR, unless a new development is revealed. Burfoot never had any record of any kind.. Sour grapes.

Obviously this failed test means something. We don't know what because a final verdict hasn't been reached. We do know she was clean when she set the WR. Thats what matters.

Hey good work with the piece the first time around. It's not easy, especially in todays social/societal climate to have the guts to truly exercise your first amendment right in such a way, putting your name, face and reputation on the line to do so.

Big respect there.

Okay, just twice under 2:20. Most of those 20-30 marathons came after 1976 when he'd given up serious marathoning. He's over four hours these days when he runs one. So what? The 30k he ran in Albany in 1975 was just a hair over or under five minute pace. I can't find results for that one but I know he was around 1:32. And a drop from 2:22 under tough conditions to 2:14 under ideal ones is not at all surprising. Clayton went from 2:19 to 2:09 in one race. Obviously you've got it in for "Andy." He doesn't seem to care and I sure don't.

It would be interesting to hear why you "knew" that 2:09:56 was too fast for Ruth Chepngetich to run cleanly (as you said in a recent YouTube video). What led you to that conclusion?

After all, 2:09:56 represents a 4% improvement on Paula Radcliffe's 2:15:25 former world best, set in 2003. The men's world best has also improved by exactly 4% during the same period.

So why is it reasonable for the men's record to improve by 4% in 20 years but not for the women's record to improve by same percentage in 21 years?

Was it their previous performances that led you to conclude that Kelvin Kiptum could cleanly run as fast as he did but that Ruth Chepngetich could not?

As we all know, though, athletes have been known to make massive improvements on their previous best, even at the WR level.

Silly. So how about Moorcroft's record? Or Ron Clarke's 36-second improvement on his previous 10,000m WR -- in a single race?

The letsrun.com mob would have burned the place down!

"Massive improvements" are a red flag in a dirty sport. The men's records will also have been doped. That obviously includes Kiptum. In fact most of the records for several decades now.

Blood doping was unknown in the mid 60's and EPO as a ped had yet to be invented for another quarter of a century.

Blood doping was around a lot sooner than was generally known. The US Air Force was trying it with pilots hoping to reduce incidences of blacking out during high altitude maneuvers in 1947 or '48. Peter Snell told a mutual friend that Josef Odlozil had blood doped prior to the '64 Olympics and a couple Finnish steeplechasers did it in 1968, but that was after the mid 60s. It was probably Kuha doing it prior to setting the steeplechase record in 1968 that began bringing blood doping to the mainstream of the sport.

You can't substantiate the hearsay quote about Snell and Odlozil. But whatever was done by the US airforce blood doping was unknown in the sport until speculation about it in the early seventies. It wasn't in the mainstream in the late 60's; it was only known to have been occurring in skiing at that time.

None of that indicates Clarke could have been doping.

No, I can't substantiate the comment from Snell which is why I made sure to say he made it to a mutual friend. I have no doubt that Peter said this to our friend but don't know how Peter learned this. And I don't know exactly when the awareness of blood doping made its way from the Air Force to the track. If Peter was right it got there earlier than most of us knew but didn't hit the mainstream until about the time you said it did. But it was known sooner than that.

Maybe massive improvements in an established professional, but for most mortals training volume greatly affects race times.

I think Ruth needs to be offered protection for her safety. If she came from a poverty background and was begging for food a few years ago as alleged on here, then she's likely a victim of an organized system.

Amby didn't have super shoes or BU to offer up inflated times. Abby you should have mentioned that the 8:45 was on a flat 200m track, think it was Coast Guard. In '78 nipped you there, you were just under 9:00 in barefeet, hardly super shoes. You were also working full time.

don't let a bunch of internet nerds living in their mothers basement get to you, some of them can now break three hours with the advent of super shoes and bi-carb and gels.etc.

Sometimes I'm surprised posters like this one even know how to use a computer.