More Kenyans busted

Three more busted the other day. Strong words from Athletics Illustrated. Seems like LetsRun is the last holdout of the 'natural born runners' myth.

Certain countries seem to be producing a large number of dopers. In the case of Kenya, where poverty is real, so is deception. Apparently, lying, cheating and stealing are normalized. So, as the athletics world has come to know over the past few years, the Kenyans, once considered a superior nation of athletes, is no more. The hypothesis was that they live close to the earth and at altitude, eat well, and travel by foot constantly. But alas, they are nothing more than a fake sport-cringing variety of runners. The list of dopers is only surpassed by Russia with its systematic doping machine.

athleticsillustrated.com

At least 3 more Kenyans and one from Uzbekistan suspended for doping

Athleticsillustrated

At least three more Kenyan athletes and one from Uzbekistan are suspended for doping

Open link

Just wait until rekrunner sets things straight with endless walls of off-topic defections. Then you'll be sorry.

No myth - hundreds of top Kenyans who have won international races all over the world since decades clearly show this.

All this has been discussed since many many years - you missed all of this?

Doping cannot explain this phenomenon.

Actually doping can very easily explain this phenomenon. Your argument is laughable. If doping is epidemic, you will get epidemic doping results. There was a period in cycling for example that the Spanish dominated cycling for almost 20 years, followed in like order by the British. All of that was PEDs.

Hi rekrunner. Good to see you are back. But why so brief, and baseless? Nmd...

Yes. Kenyans in 1965 were better doped than the rest. Kenyans in the 1970s were better doped than the rest. Brits in the 1980s were better doped than the Kenyans ever were. Slim Kenyan school girls in the 1990s were better doped to run cross than the rest (including Russians, Germans).

No Russian (Brit, French, Congolese) in the next 100 years will run a Marathon in 2 hours and 35 seconds (not even close). Dozens of Kenyans and Ethiopians will do in the next 5 years.

By BRITS? Are you serious? Brits don't dope. By definition.

Hi !!

Yes, Kenyans have been doping for decades. I point out facts such as all the top Kenyans in the 1980's xcountry teams were linked to doping scandals, and it means nothing to the hardcore fetishists and shills here. Rekrunner just replies by demanding to know why 120 million Russians don't run marathons faster than 400 million Soviets (even though they do).

Why would doped Russians run faster than doped Soviets? Gotta be special rekrunner logic.

Your "facts" are well known on this board.

"120 million Russians" - 145 is correct

"400 million Soviets" - 290 at the end is correct.

With YOUR very unique numbers. Russians also might be the fastest runners on the planet (behind some Scots and the East Africans).

GDR record - current World record

men
800m: 1:43.84 - 1:40.91 -- GDR 2.0% slower
1500m: 3:33.28 - 3:26.00 -- GDR 3.5% slower
3000m: 7:44.05 - 7:20.67 -- GDR 5.3% slower
5000m: 13:10.40 - 12:35.36 -- GDR 4.6% slower
10000m: 27:24.95 - 26:11.00 -- GDR 4.7% slower
Marathon: 2:09:03 - 2:00:35 -- GDR 7.0% slower
Steeple: 8:10.32 - 7:52.11 -- GDR 3.9% slower

women
800m: 1:55.26 - 1:53.28 -- GDR 1.7% slower
1500m: 3:57.71 - 3:49.11 -- GDR 3.8% slower
3000m: 8:36.38 - 8:06.11 -- GDR 6.2% slower
5000m: 14:59.01 - 14:00.21 -- GDR 7.0% slower
10000m: 31:11.34 - 29:01.03 -- GDR 7.5% slower
Marathon: 2:24:35 - 2:11:53 -- GDR 9.6% slower

Athletics Illustrated is hardly a neutral authority on Kenyan sociology.

It's one thing to say three Kenyan athletes were sanctioned for Triamcinolone acetonide, Methylprednisolone, Norandrosterone. But all this talk about motivations for and normalizing lying, cheating, and stealing, and suggesting Kenya is still not considered a superior nation of distance running athletes, is stretching the existing evidence and logic to mythological proportions.

The depth and belief in doping is strong and widespread, including editorials in Canadian journals.

In a thread about "Kenyan busts", it is all this other talk about a society normalizing lying, cheating, and stealing, and suggesting more busts will finally prove performance (as far back as 1980s?) was enhanced, and that East Africans superiority myths are now busted, etc., that is off-topic.

Is it? People rightfully wonder why there are so many "Kenyan busts", and what the consequences are of all these "Kenyan busts", in this thread about "Kenyan busts".

Your feeble attempts to discuss Russians and mythodology and discredit all experts including Wada and Athletics Illustrated are on-topic in your strange troll world only.

And as always, you provided no evidence for your baseless claim that Athletics Illustrated is "hardly" neutral when it comes to "Kenyan busts". Rekrunner be rekrunner.

There is an obvious middle ground. If Kelsall thinks Faith Kipyegon is a liar, cheat and thief, fake sport-cringing variety of runner his life covering the sport must not be particularly enjoyable.

Well one can't really pick and choose just to be happy - facts are facts. Kipyegon? She credits her success to her coach Sang, who already got two of his athletes banned for doping. She took the 1500 m world record from Aden's G. Dibaba, who took it from the doped up Chinese who are still on places 3 - 6 of the all time list, followed by doper Salazar's Hassan who was on the leaked list of likely blood dopers. Smoke everywhere you look.

The women's 1500 as a whole has quite a dirty history. See also

reuters.com

London 1500 stakes claim as 'dirtiest race'

Mitch Phillips

The Ben Johnson 1988 Olympic 100 meters final was dubbed "the dirtiest race in history" but there is a new contender for that dubious honor as the fallout continues from the drug-ravaged 2012 women's 1500 meters in London.

Open link

And let's better not look at the American 1500 m record history (doper Houlihan/Salazar's Rowbury/Salazar's doper Decker). Dirt everywhere you look.

Not sure why it’s not letting me respond to the above poster, anyhow…

Of course in this sport any fast time can be looked upon with suspicion. There’ll be slower dopers who have been banned (how can you be clean and beat the dopers!?). Then you get into national associations, agency associations and so on. But there is testing for a reason and instead of throwing a hissy fit every time testing removes a doper, I’d say it’s a good sign they are weeding out dopers even if many are B, C and D-listers. Prejudice is bad in all forms, and Kelsall is teetering on assuming every Kenyan is an untalented, lying doper which is too far for me. He has his narrative, and he’s very dug in on his position.

Yes - how can you be clean and beat the best, most talented dopers of them all?

I go with the middle ground here, somewhere between your downplaying the 1500's past and Kipyegon's performances and connections to "any fast time can be looked upon with suspicion" and Kelsall's "they are nothing more than a fake sport-cringing variety of runners".