To Q: Are We Not Men?
The guy listed facts, facts that are obvious to all that are not clueless:) If you think he's wrong, point out where but apparently you can't. Look at SOKLR's site and then come back and tell us all how he didn't cheat. Weird Dark Alley? Well, you are part of it.
+1
No track on right now. Multi-tasking while watching volleyball and crazy sprint kayaking.
Here's a fact or two. If these pictures don't explain it, then give up on these people as they are just trolls. To "are we not men", wake up dude, he cheated! Here's a link for you and the others in question. Pictures usually help for those who can't do math. Enjoy.
http://www.writingaboutrunning.com/2011/01/outing-of-kip-litton.html
Lone Gunman wrote:
Degree of trollage horrible and to be ignored.
Here's a few suspicious races that I do not believe have been vetted:
Naples 1/2M 2009: 1:25 - no pix on brightroom. Here's a finishing photos series I found when searching fort he guy who finished 4 sec in front of KL (a friend who has no recollection of kl nor did his training partner who was 20 sec behind):
http://www2.brightroom.com/44650/1586- look at second row of pix - look familiar? (head down, hat, number covered by singlet). Naples is perhaps the easiest course ever to cut if you wanted to.
Also Las Vegas 1/2 - 2008 - 1:21 finishing time with an almost 5 minute chip-gun diff - could not find pix on cursory look. 1/2 course loops back on itself.
Dallas White Rock 2008 - same thing - 5 min differential - no 10 mile split recorded (everyone else had one, hmmmm)
Just the facts - there is probably more stuff out there if you look. This took me 10 minutes.
Lone Gunman,
Wow Thanks for these.
Thanks for getting back on track, Lone Gunman!
I've been reading this thread and its predecessors since late 2010 (which, for the record, makes me a real loser). Seems it has really gotten taken over by Litton himself posing as fawning former patients, Litton posing as his friends, Litton posing as Mark Singer and Litton posing (most effectively) as most of the flatulent trolls.
Now that the New Yorker article and the article in his hometown paper have been published, I wonder whether this thread is actually useful anymore. He has been outed as a cheater in a very public way, so there is virtually no way that he can whitewash his dishonesty. This thread is a massive time-suck for me, so I would love to see it finally get removed, as I can't seem to control the way I spend my time. If it were to disappear, I might actually go to bed at a normal time and spend time with my family!
But...the first hundred pages or so are so incredibly excellent as a record of great detective work! In gratitude to Lone Gunman for attempting to get the thread back on track, I would highlight two additional examples of Litton's cheating, which didn't make it into the New Yorker article, but did get some action on SOKLR's site and earlier pages in this thread. For me, the impossibility of starting 4:04 back and weaving through 4,000 slow runners in the 2010 BAA 5K en route to a 17:17 is the most convincing example of Litton's dishonesty. A close second is his 2010 Vermont City Marathon for the same reason. You can read more here:
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2012/08/davison_dentists_improbable_ru.html
Secretly hoping the thread finally gets deleted or I get hit by a car on my run tomorrow...
For me, look two posts above yours.
Those pictures in that race say it all. If only Boston and Vermont did it for you over the first 100 pages, then you really didn't read enough as there are over a dozen facts that can't be disputed. Here's a tip, a friendly one at that: Don't log onto LR and if you do, simply don't click on the thread....easy as that:)
Please let me understand you? You want him to get back on track and thank him, you make a post, and then you hope the thread gets deleted? Wow, having your cake and eating it too.
Lone Gunman wrote:
Degree of trollage horrible and to be ignored.
Here's a few suspicious races that I do not believe have been vetted:
Naples 1/2M 2009: 1:25 - no pix on brightroom. Here's a finishing photos series I found when searching fort he guy who finished 4 sec in front of KL (a friend who has no recollection of kl nor did his training partner who was 20 sec behind):
http://www2.brightroom.com/44650/1586- look at second row of pix - look familiar? (head down, hat, number covered by singlet). Naples is perhaps the easiest course ever to cut if you wanted to.
Also Las Vegas 1/2 - 2008 - 1:21 finishing time with an almost 5 minute chip-gun diff - could not find pix on cursory look. 1/2 course loops back on itself.
Dallas White Rock 2008 - same thing - 5 min differential - no 10 mile split recorded (everyone else had one, hmmmm)
Just the facts - there is probably more stuff out there if you look. This took me 10 minutes.
I see no pictures of Kip in your link above.
No - not like the cake metaphor at all. I simply can't control my sickness. Since there is no 12-step program for my Litton addiction, I need someone else to take the website down so that I can get a life! I'm not sure which is worse, Litton's cheating or my fascination with it (yours too, by the way).
Actually (and I hate to admit it), I have read every single one of the 4,000+ posts in this thread and the previously deleted ones. I totally agree with you that there are over a dozen facts (I'd say even more!) that clearly show Litton cheated. I'm just saying that for me, the 2010 BAA 5K and VCM are the most impossible for Litton to explain. In the VCM, for example, after weaving through 2,300 runners, most of whom were creeping along at 10 min/mi for the first couple of miles in all of the race congestion, he likely would have hit three miles in a chip time of no faster than 24:00. (See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoKAbUJmyAQ
for a video of the 2010 VCM start and fast forward to the 5:30 mark to see how slow the middle packers are really running and how difficult it would have been to get through them quickly.) The official VCM website (http://www.coolrunning.com/results/10/vt/May30_22ndKe_set1.shtml) shows Litton's chip time when he crossed the 10-mi chip mat in 1:03:21, an utterly impossible time to run, since the seven miles from 3-10 would have had to be around 40 minutes or so - a laughably outrageous pace of about 5:40 per mile.
I'm totally with you that all of the other evidence, along with Litton's fantastical explanations lend so much support to this serial cheating story that it can't be disputed by anyone who is sane.
Of course one could correctly argue that none of us are sane, since we're still reading this thread after more than two years...
The 7th, 8th and 9th pix in from the left - pictures number 44650-169-009, 010, 011. On the right hand side of the shot.
marathoncheater wrote:
Of course one could correctly argue that none of us are sane, since we're still reading this thread after more than two years...
WTF? I have been reading this for TWO years by now? o_O
Proof this is some "universal" story, like Romeo and Juliet.
Wisely chosen as subject of a wide published article.
Lone Gunman wrote:
The 7th, 8th and 9th pix in from the left - pictures number 44650-169-009, 010, 011. On the right hand side of the shot.
Thanks, got it, I see it's time for me to get new glasses now.
Kip's neck injury just won't let him look up, he should trades services with a good chiro.
wow this whole story is incredible. after ignoring it for years by not clicking on this thread, i picked up the new yorker article and was shocked by how absolutely outrageous this whole entire thing is.
first, litton's cheating is beyond anything i could ever imagine someone investing the time to do. that whole west wyoming marathon, website, and fake finishers made up? good god.
second, the reality that this letsrun thread has been around for years and played an integral part in exposing this guy's cheating is a testament to how crazy people on letsrun are. that marathon guy has read every post on this thread??? this thread captures the ridiculous-ness of letsrun generally: "inanely combative" posts by trolls, including apparently Litton himself, but also realistic/important enough to help give birth to an article in the real-life New Yorker. what a contradiction.
i am both amazed and disgusted by letsrun, mark singer, kip litton, the new yorker, and everyone else who has played a part in this story. may god have mercy on your souls.
marathoncheater wrote:
For me, the impossibility of starting 4:04 back and weaving through 4,000 slow runners in the 2010 BAA 5K en route to a 17:17 is the most convincing example of Litton's dishonesty. A close second is his 2010 Vermont City Marathon for the same reason. You can read more here:
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2012/08/davison_dentists_improbable_ru.html...
That's what had initially caught my eye...Litton's 2010 BAA 5k finishing pics (race photographer's website) for the 17:17 5k with a 4:04 gun/chip differential...And you letsrunners found the rest.
Of course, Kyle knew he had cheated in almost all of his 2010 races months before we letsrunners started digging. And Scott knew quite a bit about him all the way back to the Michigan scene ....such as Detroit Free Press Relay and CRIM races.
marathoncheater wrote:
Actually (and I hate to admit it), I have read every single one of the 4,000+ posts in this thread and the previously deleted ones. I totally agree with you that there are over a dozen facts (I'd say even more!) that clearly show Litton cheated. I'm just saying that for me, the 2010 BAA 5K and VCM are the most impossible for Litton to explain. In the VCM, for example, after weaving through 2,300 runners, most of whom were creeping along at 10 min/mi for the first couple of miles in all of the race congestion, he likely would have hit three miles in a chip time of no faster than 24:00. (See
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoKAbUJmyAQfor a video of the 2010 VCM start and fast forward to the 5:30 mark to see how slow the middle packers are really running and how difficult it would have been to get through them quickly.) The official VCM website (http://www.coolrunning.com/results/10/vt/May30_22ndKe_set1.shtml) shows Litton's chip time when he crossed the 10-mi chip mat in 1:03:21, an utterly impossible time to run, since the seven miles from 3-10 would have had to be around 40 minutes or so - a laughably outrageous pace of about 5:40 per mile.
I'm totally with you that all of the other evidence, along with Litton's fantastical explanations lend so much support to this serial cheating story that it can't be disputed by anyone who is sane.
Of course one could correctly argue that none of us are sane, since we're still reading this thread after more than two years...
+1
Surely you jest? Reading this thread on and off doesn't make anyone insane, or not sane, however you choose to say it. Have you ever heard of anyone doing this to this level for SO MANY RACES, even after getting dq'ed? I haven't and if I had taken money or even awards from someone, I would feel like crap...but that's me. Your feelings may vary and surely do.
tru dat! word 2 da cheaters!
U heard it here 1st!!! wrote:
Id love to hear the reaction from you aholes who doubted there was ever going to be an article
Hahahahah