Official LRC President Donald J Trump Thread

I am far from alone in this analysis.

Davor wrote:

Dictionaries and Sh!t wrote:

Sorry, but making up your own definitions does not give them validity in the real world.

I am far from alone in this analysis.

Lots of people can believe the wrong idea. Lots of people thought the earth was flat.

Davor is basically correct. You have given the wrong definition of nationalism.

A nationalist is not someone who seeks to further the interests of the individuals in a nation. A nationalist is someone who seeks to further the interests of the nation as a whole. In America, we sometimes forget that these are NOT the same thing.

Tiny is still a nationalist, despite the fact that he doesn't care about ordinary Americans the way you presume Tudman cared about Croatians.

I think that Tiny has genuine beliefs about what will make our nation "strong". And he acts on those beliefs without regard to the moral consequences. For instance, he stole children from immigrants because he thought it would stop illegal immigration. He did something reprehensible for the "good of the nation".

And when a leader pursues a nationalist agenda without regard for ethics, the leader has crossed over to become a fascist.

I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Tiny if he were merely a nationalist. But fascism must always be stopped as quickly as possible.

Not really involved in all this--to paraphrase George Carlin, I'm just here for the entertainment--but I agree with posters earlier in this thread who've said there's an excellent chance that President Trump will be re-elected. Okay, I wouldn't use "excellent" but it certainly seems like a very real possibility. Why?

1. Geography. Almost all the people who really hate the President seem to be in states that voted Democratic last time anyway. He would have to lose, what, about 35 electoral votes? I'm open to being convinced of that, but I don't see it at this point. Where would he lose those electors?

2. Incumbency. The President always has a tremendous advantage in being the incumbent. That wasn't enough for Carter(D) or Bush the Elder(R), but I think Trump is different. He generates so much news that all the media outlets will once again give him billions of dollars' worth of free publicity.

3. Lack of a compelling opponent. A lot can happen between now and the primary season, but I haven't seen any Democrat who could be described as exciting. (Face it, having Trump as POTUS is stimulating, even if only in the way that watching car crashes on YouTube is.) I notice that others have mentioned Gillibrand, who seems to have a lot going for her, but apparently she's not interested in running--at least, not in 2020. So...who?

The problem here is the assumption that there is only one form of nationalism when in fact it is a polysemous term. The part of traditional right wing nationalism that has to do with defining the state along ethnic lines and attempting to limit its benefits to the founding "tribe" is clear in Trump's platform (even though Trump demonstrates no actual loyalty to those outside his syndicate). In other ways Trump's eccentric political philosophy is at odds with many definitions of nationalism. Trump consistently rails against or makes fun of the foundational traditions of the American state, and that is all at odds with many definitions of nationalism. In this regard he is more of a revolutionary, calling for a new and highly personalized form of nationalism. To Trump legitimacy is claimed in terms of the cult of himself, with only the vaguest references to American tradition. No other president in American history has taken this approach, certainly not to the degree that Trump has. In terms of economic and diplomatic policy, Trump has been counter to just about *every* notion of nationalism. Nationalism privileges the home state; Trump's kowtowing to a small cabal of leaders who are viewed as hostile to American interests by the vast majority of Americans is the sign not of a nationalist but someone who is decidedly post-nationalist, who places a higher value upon transactional relationships that benefit the power/economic syndicate of which he is a part. In this sense, his philosophy is a harkening back to the era of divine right. He asks that his followers join him, with no clear benefit to themselves, in his personal entanglements. Those red hat folks are somewhat like the peasants who became footmen in the king's service in the Hundred Years War, allegedly between "France" and "England" but really a battle between ruling elites. Today Trump's supporters have more knowledge and power than the indentured class of the 14/15th Centuries, but they choose their liege anyway because it is an itch that is so good to scratch. His nationalism is like that of the English kings of that era, who knew little of their subjects and cared for them even less.

Davor wrote:

Dictionaries and Sh!t wrote:

Sorry, but making up your own definitions does not give them validity in the real world.

I am far from alone in this analysis.

Multiple morons are still . . . morons.

Let's be clear about the definition of 'nationalist':

Nationalist - a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

The bold part above is the most important part.

There is nothing redeeming about being a nationalist.

The above is correct, brother.

My questions for you are...

1) who is coming?

2) who is done?

The path to Trump losing re-election is pretty simple.

Lose Florida plus one other state among PA or OH or MI or WI.

But Florida is the key.

And a Republican just beat the incumbent Democrat to flip a senate seat.

Though, that Republican was the current governor of Florida.

I’m thinking they like Rick Scott more than Trump.

I still don’t think Trump will be on the Nov 2020 ballot, though.

Proper definitions written above wrote:

Flagpole wrote:

Let's be clear about the definition of 'nationalist':

Nationalist - a person who strongly identifies with their own nation and vigorously supports its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

The bold part above is the most important part.

There is nothing redeeming about being a nationalist.

The above is correct, brother.

My questions for you are...

1) who is coming?

2) who is done?

I will answer your very good questions.

Mueller is coming.

The clown is done.

Easy answer....PA, WI, MI. 3 states that have not done well under the tariffs, 3 states in which independent support carried him to victory, 3 states in which he won by around 1% or less. That’s not accounting for a substantial 3rd candidate. I’m about 50/50 on Kasich running .

Alan

L L wrote:

The path to Trump losing re-election is pretty simple.

Lose Florida plus one other state among PA or OH or MI or WI.

But Florida is the key.

And a Republican just beat the incumbent Democrat to flip a senate seat.

Though, that Republican was the current governor of Florida.

I’m thinking they like Rick Scott more than Trump.

I still don’t think Trump will be on the Nov 2020 ballot, though.

Thanks for your input. It moved my thinking in a new direction. I appreciate it.

I have close kin in Florida and went to college there, and encountered a wide variety of people (I had grill cook/janitor jobs, as well), and have returned to the state multiple times since then. If Florida is really the path to a Democratic win in 2020, then it's a narrow path: available, but narrow, and one that has to be trod by a sure-footed candidate...I'm not yet seeing one of those among the Democrats' ranks, but of course things can change.

TBH I think it's more likely that the GOP will lose the Senate than that DJT will be defeated for re-election. And I consider it not particularly likely that the GOP *shall* lose the Senate in 2020.

On a related but separate note: I don't think Beto ("the loser"--to Mr. Smarmy, no less!) has a chance nationwide. One of the characteristics that's seen in his favor--his fluency in Spanish--would *precisely* be a considerable liability among the (large) number of voters who want people in this country to *stop* speaking Spanish.

No dog in this fight wrote:

One of the characteristics that's seen in his favor--his fluency in Spanish--would *precisely* be a considerable liability among the (large) number of voters who want people in this country to *stop* speaking Spanish.

You seem to be okay with Melania speaking Croatian—a scary foreign language like Spanish. She speaks when talking with her parents, who Trump allowed to chain immigrate to the U.S—Trump hates chain immigration and vows to ban it. Then you also have Trump, who is not fluent in English, as his Tweets prove. Yet, somehow, Trump is your 100% front-runner for 2020 because … why?

No dog in this fight wrote:

On a related but separate note: I don't think Beto ("the loser"--to Mr. Smarmy, no less!) has a chance nationwide. One of the characteristics that's seen in his favor--his fluency in Spanish--would *precisely* be a considerable liability among the (large) number of voters who want people in this country to *stop* speaking Spanish.

All the potential Dems except Biden still need to prove themselves.

That's what the primaries are for.

Hillary was projected to win Florida in all of the polls all the way up to Election Day. Her loss was surprising to say the least.

The senate and governor races were extremely close this fall.

The state is wide open and worth 29 electoral votes. A 58 point swing potential.

All of those motivated Democrat loving high schoolers will be 18 by 2020.

The old Republican people will start dying.

The Hispanics will be watching how they are treated.

FL doesn’t really matter like it used to.

WI and MI will be solid Dem again, like they’ve been for a very long time prior to 2016.

PA will also slide back into the Dem column.

Those were the closest states so it makes sense to start there.

Alan

I also think AZ has a better than 50/50 chance of flipping to Dem and TX will get uncomfortably close, say 51/49. TX voted more Dem in 2016 than 2012....

Alan

Math is hard! wrote:

the TRUMP way. Suck...s!!!!!!

Agreed

Squirrel_spotter_a_real_1 wrote:

Downer wrote:

Dow up 400 pts!

Trump is the greatest president ever!!!!!

LOOK!!! SQUIRREL!!!!!!!

I'm just a jealous left winger!!!!