2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

Geoffrey Kamworor ... good workout ... 52.75 x 400 in 66 seconds flat with no rest.

dunes runner wrote:

Geoffrey Kamworor ... good workout ... 52.75 x 400 in 66 seconds flat with no rest.

That`s Geoffrey`s LT -pace ! Up at high altitude in Kenya he use to do his LT-intervals at 2:48- 2:50 min/ km ( 2000-2300 m altitude) and it`s approximately to around 2:45 min/ km at sea level. Right before the first 2 hour attempt he and Kipchoge did 15 x 2000m at 5:40 with 200m jog rest!

-Magic fall -

Today 20 x 400m at 68.5 - 69.8 with rest from 42.9 sec - 71.1 sec down back to 120 bpm. Phil reported he just relaxed in this workout. Humid conditions. 69s is feeling pretty easy for Phil those days . I can smell success, but one week at a time to the goal.

- It looks like magic - :)

[quote]S. Canaday wrote:

I'll put in a guess here (but like Coach JS says it is hard to predict): 2:21:xx

I do know the Boulder area and these look like workouts I'd do before a 2:20 or so (I'm not very good at altitude though...even only at 5280'). But you could've run a bit faster or much slower? Maybe even a 2:23-2:24?

So you did this 7 years ago? (you were 30 then and 37 now)?

Depending on how my mountain season ends next week I'll likely be making an OTQ run at CIM as well. Finding more power and better running form this summer on only 60-70mpw lately.

I think there is a lot of truth into "getting back the speed-efficiency" by doing "Economy Reps" like 16-20 x 400m and then 1km repeats as key workouts ....even for marathon training. For a guy that has run a lot of 100mpw in the past decade I think that is a good way to go. If I'm doing 1km repeats close to 3:00 first then longer Tempos and other more marathon specific workouts at 5:10-5:00 pace come back naturally. ...and to do 1km repeats around 3:00, it sure helps to be able to do a lot of 400s all under 70.0. on a short rest.

Even in college (12 years ago for me) I ran 2:21 in the marathon off of a full season of 5km-10km racing and training (track) + 4 weeks of a few ("extension" long runs). But average mileage was probably only in the 80-90mpw range for the last 2-3 months.

Interesting following this thread...

[quote]

Glad to hear you're planning to make one final push for the OTQ, Sage. You've clearly had a strong mountain running season this year, and I think your approach of a cut to mileage while focusing on speed and running economy is just what you need. IIRC, you never had the speed to crack 2:00 in the 800m, but you've clearly got a massive aerobic base from decades of 100+mpw. I think if you can improve your economy at faster speeds you'll start feeling a lot more comfortable at goal MP and be able to hang on during the last 6 miles of the race.

I'm looking forward to following your OTQ series on YouTube!

So you are 16:XX 5k going for 2:21 marathon? What now?

A very good example of this doing less mileage and more pace concentrated training is my Kenyan ultra runner Peterson Kipchumba Too…….He ran a 2:38 marathon before I started o coach him 2015 …...in short time coaching him he did 2:28 and kept on develop. A year ago he ran Family Bank half in Kenya and 1:06 !(2000m altitude) Now he has improved even more and in training he does 20 x 400m at 65-66 sec and LT-intervals like 8 x 1600m at 4:45-4:48 with rest down to 120 bpm . I hink he is ready to run a marathon in 2:13-2:14...…….a guy that in beginning of my coaching had troubles to run 20 x 400m at 76-78 sec !!

Today another nice threshold interval by Phil ..... 3 x 1600m + 2 x 1000m + 2 x 1200m + 6 x 800m at 5:00-5:04 mile pace ....average rest back to 120 bpm 68-69 sec . So far everything goes at plan..... :)

5:03.2, 54.2

5:04.0, 62.5

5:03.6, 60.6

3:09.3, 64.7

3:09.3, 79.1

3:48.9, 83.2

3:47.8, 77.0

2:32.0, 73.7

2:32.2, 74.3

2:30.1, 69.4

2:30.5, 64.4

2:31.9, 73.8

2:31.2, 62.4

Below Average wrote:

5:03.2, 54.2

5:04.0, 62.5

5:03.6, 60.6

3:09.3, 64.7

3:09.3, 79.1

3:48.9, 83.2

3:47.8, 77.0

2:32.0, 73.7

2:32.2, 74.3

2:30.1, 69.4

2:30.5, 64.4

2:31.9, 73.8

2:31.2, 62.4

Tomorrow a specific long run again. 2 hours 20 min easy at 6:30 pace .......last 20 min at intervals 1 min fast -1 min slow.....fast pace LT 75-76 sec / 400m ......Good luck! :)

A great specific long run by Phil Today! 22 miles and fast finish......I let him tell himself. Cheers! :) …..a couple of more good results today by my runners. Rosaline Nyawira won a local half in 1:11 in South Africa and my Kenyan runner Kiplangat Bore ran 1:04:09 half in Orange Pikwhet half in Botswana and lowered his half PB by almost 3½ min down from 1:07:26 to 1:04:09 .

- Magic Fall-

Not only are you below average, but you have a boring life! Sucks to be you!

You sounds really fun and interesting! I bet you are life of the party when you drink 12 white claws and talk about how much you like Lamborghini’s.

12 weeks down 11 to go. Another good week. I will admit that I am surprised how great I’m feeling during the long runs. I had to intentionally slow down over a hilly route to hit the paces J.S. wanted.

M: 8.68 miles, 60 min easy, 6:54 pace

T: 12 miles, 20x400

69.8, 46.4

69.8, 42.9

69.2, 46.6

69.1, 50.8

69.4, 52.4

69.6, 53.3

69.9, 53.5

68.9, 58.5

68.9, 57.9

69.4, 58.4

69.5, 68.5

68.9, 67.6

68.5, 67.8

69.3, 63.1

69.8, 68.9

68.5, 68.3

69.3, 68.8

68.9, 71.1

69.5, 67.8

68.9, 62.6

W: 7.73 miles, 50 min easy, 6:28 pace, AM thunderstorms so I ran on the treadmill

Th: 14 miles, 3x1600, 2x1k, 2x1200, 6x800

5:03.2, 54.2

5:04.0, 62.5

5:03.6, 60.6

3:09.3, 64.7

3:09.3, 79.1

3:48.9, 83.2

3:47.8, 77.0

2:32.0, 73.7

2:32.2, 74.3

2:30.1, 69.4

2:30.5, 64.4

2:31.9, 73.8

2:31.2, 62.4

F: 6.55 miles, 50 min very easy, 7:38 pace. Full recovery jog

S: 21.98 miles. 6:22 pace. Fairly hilly route. First 2 hrs at 6:30 pace last 20 min 1 min on 1 min off. Averaged 5:43 pace overall, range of 4:51-5:26 during the fast sections. I ended up being on a tough section of bike path on a couple of them that slowed me down. Drank 30 oz of Gatorade during the run and gu’s at 40min, 1:20, and 1:55. 20 degrees warmer than last week but still felt great.

S: Rest

Total: 70.94 miles

Really admire the training; I'm retired and took up writing. Here's some motivation. The protagonist is running slightly more, 100+ per week but a college student. Available October 1! Enjoy.

https://indiereader.com/book_review/racing-shadows/

https://www.amazon.com/Racing-Shadows-James-K-Dill/dp/1627202420/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=racing+shadows&qid=1569066569&sr=8-1

218er wrote:

Really admire the training; I'm retired and took up writing. Here's some motivation. The protagonist is running slightly more, 100+ per week but a college student. Available October 1! Enjoy.

https://indiereader.com/book_review/racing-shadows/https://www.amazon.com/Racing-Shadows-James-K-Dill/dp/1627202420/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=racing+shadows&qid=1569066569&sr=8-1

Well......you take your chance to advertise your book. Good luck!

But just wait until I will release the running book of the century! )) It will be all about my training system and my life . I plan to start write the book the week after my first international medallist as a coach will be.May take a few more years, time will tell.

- Magic Coaching -

Another successful week . And still 11 weeks to go . The DANCAN way of training has really "transformed" you and now starts the real sharpening of 2½ months (10 weeks) . 2-2½ months seem to be perfect when preparing for a marathon with the DANCAN-system.

- COACH J.S -

Thanks so much for starting this thread. With a demanding job, full-time working spouse, and 3 small kids it is enormously stimulating to know someone out there is waking up at 4am to do all these workouts.

Hey there OP. What do you find hardest about the training, if anything? Also what do you enjoy the most and do you feel different to other systems or schedules you have used?

Do you do any strides or anything faster than the quicker 400s that appear occasionally?

Also, are you doing any strength training on top of this?

Legolas wrote:

Hey there OP. What do you find hardest about the training, if anything? Also what do you enjoy the most and do you feel different to other systems or schedules you have used?

Do you do any strides or anything faster than the quicker 400s that appear occasionally?

Also, are you doing any strength training on top of this?

The hardest part for me is the length and speed of the threshold workouts. If it’s hot or I’m not feeling great they are very tough to finish. If it wasn’t for J.S. I’d never even think about trying most of them. Especially at the paces that he prescribes.

The thing I like the most is the specific recovery days. In the past I’ve always felt a little guilty that I could always run more if I added another double, got up earlier, added on to runs. It’s very freeing for me to just run my 50 min run and move on with my day. I also really love the rest to 120 bpm. I love the consistency of it and how I can see fitness improvements from week to week.

Before working with J.S. I was doing strides a couple times per week. I haven’t done them at all since workout with him. I was unsure about it, but honestly I feel better than ever now so i don’t really think about it anymore. I don’t do any specific strength training, but I have a pretty physical job. Lots of time on my feet, bending, crouching, lifting 10-50lbs. I actually think it is helpful compared to an office job. I also love cutting and splitting firewood by hand. I probably cut and split 3 cords per season. It’s a great workout. Winter is coming, you gotta be prepared.