The full USADA report on Alberto Salazar has been leaked - Here it is

Well, we aren't a collective. People are not all going to agree.

That is the essence of why the "spirit of competition" standard is basically pointless.

If people think using thyroid medication is unethical, well, then yes, they should apply that standard to ALL the athletes using thyroid medication.

if people think using thyroid medication is fine because it isn't banned, then they should apply that to ALL the athletes.

I won't tell anybody how they should feel about people using thyroid medication.

In a legalistic sense, the only thing that matters is whether they have broken the rules and can be sanctioned. In my best reading of the facts and the standards, there is a significant difference here between Salazar and the NOP runners and the other people who have seen Dr. Brown.

Except many of these athletes probably see the $$$ they're making as more important and supportive to the well being of their family and kids than being an inferior athlete and falling back on your communications degree to make $30K a year being a coach for a D3 team somewhere.

i agree with spencer wrote:

dear god its people like you who dont want to see the reality.

L-carnitine fine ok, but when you are INJECTING it in high dosages to try and achieve a performance enhancement then its a problem

its not they are taking v-D, its they are taking WAAAAAAAY more than is considered healthy....again for the performance enhancement that salazar figured out happens (thanks to guinea pigs like magness)

no one is saying that taking supplements and vit are bad, but when you start MACRO dosing them, and having them injected thats when you are going too far.

answer this for me. do you think it would be ok for a 13yr old trying to run fast to have his coach injecting him with macro dosages of carnitine and vit d? and tell him not to tell his parents or other athletes?

This reads like how hobby joggers talk about running.

"Running is fine and all, but you're running waaaaaaayyyyyyy more than is healthy."

Is this summary right? wrote:

Please give me one example - a single example - of when there has been "name calling" or "lynch-mob" outrage in the past.

We've approached this story in the same manner as all.

[/quote]

My god, where do I start?

Gabe Grunewald & ProPublica are incidents that come immediately to mind.

The key word in the report over and over is "highly likely." Sorry but the burden of proof is much higher than that. It is obvious that Salazar wanted to get as close to the line of acceptable numbers and used legal substances to do it. It is utterly unfair to speculate. In drug cheating you need tests and or catch the person with the stuff. Meanwhile, the usada lets football and baseball, sports in which so many are obviously using, to go scott free....l

Gwalkerruns wrote:

In drug cheating you need tests and or catch the person with the stuff.

No, you don't. Non-analytical positives are well established.

Meanwhile, the usada lets football and baseball, sports in which so many are obviously using, to go scott free....l

USADA has no authority to do anything in either of those sports. They have their own separate testing programs.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

If people think using thyroid medication is unethical, well, then yes, they should apply that standard to ALL the athletes using thyroid medication.

if people think using thyroid medication is fine because it isn't banned, then they should apply that to ALL the athletes.

I won't tell anybody how they should feel about people using thyroid medication.

When the athlete's body is dysfunctional for the rest of their lives because of the results of doping, then what?

That's the second most important point of anti-doping. But, obviously, the sports federations have turned it into a revenue opportunity.

Citius, Altius, Fortius. Laissez-faire!

I'm aware its not complicated except for the USADA makes a different case in their report:

Nice job side-stepping my question. "How much a healthy person needs" Healthy non-athlete?Healthy elite athlete?Needed to survive? Needed to excel?There is no black and white here. You having an emotional response to someone injecting something that you don't believe is "natural." I'm asking you to consider what makes something "natural" (hint: you can't define you it). Adults do many things in the name of excellence that kids shouldn't do, that's not a reason to ban it.

i agree with spencer wrote:

when doctors figure out how much a healthy person needs. now salazar being a mad doctor figures out by giving his guinea pigs higher and higher dosages, then f*ck orally its time to inject this stuff so it works faster. then after he tweeks the dosage he gives it to his real runners.

somewhere you seem to think this is legit. so making magness do all this experiments was ok? you think kids see this and wont think "oh man i need to start injecting this sh*t, i mean its legal!!"

nice way to be a moron

Agreed. Like 2/3rds of the practices of a pro runner would be highly inappropriate/dangerous for a 13 year old.

Let's not stoop to "won't someone please thing of the children"

fsdfsdfsdf wrote:

rjm33 wrote:

An IV infusion of just 1 of the 100 mL bags would be a total dose of 21.49 grams (= 21,490 mg) of L-carnitine. They administered 1 to 4 bags total.

A typical IV dose of L-carnitine is 50 mg/kg. = 3,000 mg total dose for a 60 kg. person.

Playing devil's advocate, are you saying only 1/7th of the IV bag would be needed (3000mg dose into 21500mg bag)? That would equate to about 14 mL of fluid.

Anyone?

Gwalkerruns wrote:

The key word in the report over and over is "highly likely." Sorry but the burden of proof is much higher than that. It is obvious that Salazar wanted to get as close to the line of acceptable numbers and used legal substances to do it. It is utterly unfair to speculate. In drug cheating you need tests and or catch the person with the stuff.

Here's the actual standard, from the WADA Code, Article 3: Proof of Doping:

Sec. 3.1 Burdens and Standards of Proof

The standard of proof shall be whether the Anti-Doping Organization has established an anti-doping rule violation to the comfortable satisfaction of the

hearing panel, bearing in mind the seriousness of the allegation which is made. This standard of proof in all cases is greater than a mere balance of probability but less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

It's more information than I wanted to know.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

If people think using thyroid medication is unethical, well, then yes, they should apply that standard to ALL the athletes using thyroid medication.

if people think using thyroid medication is fine because it isn't banned, then they should apply that to ALL the athletes.

I won't tell anybody how they should feel about people using thyroid medication.

When the athlete's body is dysfunctional for the rest of their lives because of the results of doping, then what?

That's the second most important point of anti-doping. But, obviously, the sports federations have turned it into a revenue opportunity.

I don't make the rules, I'm just saying what they are. Wada could add thyroid medications to the prohibited list, but they have declined to do so on multiple occasions. Of course as long as there are athletes (and coaches and sponsors) willing to prioritize running fast and the small amount of fame and fortune that comes with it, there will always be people willing to experiment. I don't think there is any way to prevent that. Nobody should play football with what we know about the dangers, much less box or do MMA, but people do those to (and the medical/pharmacy things that come with it). Cracking down on thyroid just shifts the line.

norphxc wrote:

fsdfsdfsdf wrote:

Playing devil's advocate, are you saying only 1/7th of the IV bag would be needed (3000mg dose into 21500mg bag)? That would equate to about 14 mL of fluid.

Anyone?

If you go back to rjm33 post and copy and paste the whole response you might get a better response. I need to be somewhere right now and don't have time to write my thoughts/calculations etc but the poster playing devil's advocate is not giving all info...

They gave the entire 100 mL bags. They administered 1 to 4 bags. They did not administer 14 mL or 15 mL ( = 3,000 mg of L-carnitine) because that dose does not raise plasma carnitine concentrations from under 100 micromol/L to 2000 micromol/L after the IV infusion of L-carnitine.

The IV infusion had a duration of over 1 hour.

Even though L-carnitine is available in the US as pills or powder for oral use, all L-carnitine for intravenous injection or infusion is a prescription drug.

The idea for the L-carnitine infusions came from Alberto Salazar and not from Dr. Brown. Dr. Brown just does what Alberto tells him to do…and he is paid by someone (Nike?) to see all the NOP athletes.

Coach Alberto has played doctor and practiced medicine without a license on many occasions.

He has dispensed the prescription NSAID drug Celebrex to athletes without a prescription for Celebrex, which is illegal because Alberto is not a doctor or a pharmacy.

He has had Mo Farah, Dathan Ritzenhein and other runners on the prescription drug calcitonin…until Pete Julian found out that it might increase cancer risk. Whoops. Then the athletes were told to stop taking calcitonin…after Ritzenhein had already been on it for 4 years.

Alberto Salazar dispensed the schedule III controlled substance and prescription drug Androgel (testosterone gel) to his 2 experimental subjects (his 2 sons) when he did the "Possible Galen Rupp Sabotage with Androgel Experiments" with measurement of testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E) levels to see what amount would trigger a positive doping test. That is against various federal and state drug laws because Alberto is not a doctor or pharmacy and neither of his 2 sons had a prescription for Androgel. It is illegal to dispense a schedule III controlled substance and prescription drug Androgel to any person who does not have a prescription for Androgel.

Alberto Salazar has also emailed Galen Rupp and told Galen to increase his dose of the prescription thyroid hormone drug Levoxyl (T4) and to start on the prescription drug Cytomel (T3) right away. He then offers to drive the prescription thyroid hormone drug Cytomel over to Galen.

Alberto Salazar is coach, doctor and pharmacy all in one.

In a Dec. 20, 2011, email to Rupp, he wrote: "Take a full extra Levoxyl tonight and start on Cytomel right away. P.S. I've got Cytomel. If you don't have it, call me and I'll drive it over."

Alberto Salazar should not be "playing doctor" with Galen Rupp by telling him to increase his dose of Levoxyl and to start Cytomel.

Coach Alberto Salazar should also not act like a pharmacy delivery service for Galen Rupp.

In conclusion:

1) Coach Alberto Salazar needs to be STOPPED.

Mr. Obvious wrote: Of course as long as there are athletes (and coaches and sponsors) willing to prioritize running fast

It's the federation permitting doping. They know exactly who is/isn't doping. The bio-passport is excellent in that respect.

How many years has Salazar's doping made headlines? USATF/IAAF have no problem with doping.

And then they blame the athlete for doping for years on end.

We agree on most points. This part of the discussion rarely gets mentioned.

rojo wrote:

how about that wrote:

Nice to see LetsRun taking a journalistic approach on this, summarizing facts and putting them in thoughtful context, versus their previous fox news approach of lynch-mob outrage and name calling.

.

Please give me one example - a single example - of when there has been "name calling" or "lynch-mob" outrage in the past.

We've approached this story in the same manner as all.

Robert, I want you to become a good journalist.