broken recordz wrote:
No one is saying everyone at NOP knows about it brother. That's not how something stays secret. Use your brain.
A secret isn't a secret if you tell anyone else about it.
broken recordz wrote:
No one is saying everyone at NOP knows about it brother. That's not how something stays secret. Use your brain.
A secret isn't a secret if you tell anyone else about it.
Renato Canova wrote:
No, EPO is not an equalizer, because there is no way that athletes with less taletnt can reach the same level of athletes with better talent in long distances, of course if the most talented athletes have proper training.
What I say is that tough and proper training for the best African runners, born and training in altitude, produces physiological effects that can't be enhanced by any blood doping coming from external sources.
The effect of top training, and the effects of blood doping, are not cumulable.
With 4 months of proper hard training, for example, top athletes can increase their total volume of blood of about 25%, maintaining a very low viscosity, and this allows blood to circulate faster in the circulatory system. The same can't happen using EPO, since there is some increase in viscosity.
I don't have any "advanced science degree", but I coach many of the best Kenyan and Ethiopian in the World, I use to do blood tests for controlling their health, and this is exactly the reason because I know what happens with training, while who has an "advanced science degree" doesn't know, because the only thing they can know is the effect of easy training on average athletes (a statistical population very far from the population of top African athletes).
About the last paragraph, I can forgive everybody, but I can't avoid to give the plate of "not honest and stupid idiot" to people speaking about other people without knowing anything of them.
For example, now I'm the head coach in China for middle and long distances, and when I saw an athlete, last year before Asian Games, with strange parameters in their blood values (I had the opportunity to do, with all the National Team, weekly blood tests as research for collecting values about the evolution of the blood situation during training in altitude, since in Duoba, 2300m, there is a lab working every day), not included in National Team before (only the athletes officially in National Team are tested by the Chinese Antidoping Agency every 10 days - two weeks, every time of the season), I asked to the Chinese Agency itself to control that athletes, who at the end was banned for two years, because took EPO.
This only for explaining my position about doping.
Now, I repeat again : when we can finally discuss the effects of training at top level, and only at that time, we can start to understand the real effets of doping (I speak about blood doping, since it's acclarated that steroids can give advantages, under the side of muscle strength and ability to recover, that clean training can't produce).
Renato, please comment on the NOP doping scandal.
"Salazar immediately impugned the sanity of longtime Nike lab physiologist, Loren Myhre, and suggested that Myhre's battle with ALS must have diminished his faculties. (Myhre passed away in 2012, but the record Magness asked about was from 2002, a year when Myrhe was given an award by Nike for his work, according to an obituary.) Salazar said Myhre was "crazy and he must be mixing it up with something else," Magness says."
Typical Armstrong.
I mean Salazar.
rupp-certified saladbar wrote:
"... a box arrived at his hotel room. Inside it he found a paperback thriller. Confused, he flipped it open. A section of the pages had been hollowed out to form a compartment into which two pills were taped. "At that point," Magness says, "my mind was like, this is stuff you see in movies, this is extremely strange."
Sounds pretty normal.
Would love to know what the book was...
broken recordz wrote:
No one is saying everyone at NOP knows about it brother. That's not how something stays secret. Use your brain.
So again, the only thing concrete evidence Magness can produce is the 2002 entry. Use your brain, it may not be running on the video display at the NOP training center but if the doping program is so rampant I'd expect a bit more evidence to support that claim. Magness was a coach and scientific adviser not the janitor.
Renato Canova wrote:
No, EPO is not an equalizer, because there is no way that athletes with less taletnt can reach the same level of athletes with better talent in long distances, of course if the most talented athletes have proper training.
What I say is that tough and proper training for the best African runners, born and training in altitude, produces physiological effects that can't be enhanced by any blood doping coming from external sources.
The effect of top training, and the effects of blood doping, are not cumulable.
With all due respect, I don't think there's any scientific basis for this, nor do I think there's anyone else who even thinks this.
Galen "alpha male" Rupp wrote:
rupp-certified saladbar wrote:"... a box arrived at his hotel room. Inside it he found a paperback thriller. Confused, he flipped it open. A section of the pages had been hollowed out to form a compartment into which two pills were taped. "At that point," Magness says, "my mind was like, this is stuff you see in movies, this is extremely strange."
Sounds pretty normal.
Would love to know what the book was...
Andromeda strain
Fun fact: ALS doesn't have any effect on cognitive function. Which is actually the cruelest part of the disease: you have neuromuscular degeneration but completely preserved mental faculties. So I guess that's another example of Salazar acting like a sociopath.
double stubble wrote:
Galen "alpha male" Rupp wrote:Would love to know what the book was...
Andromeda strain
LOL hahah was actually thinking a Crichton title as well.
HonestNauman wrote:
broken recordz wrote:No one is saying everyone at NOP knows about it brother. That's not how something stays secret. Use your brain.
So again, the only thing concrete evidence Magness can produce is the 2002 entry. Use your brain, it may not be running on the video display at the NOP training center but if the doping program is so rampant I'd expect a bit more evidence to support that claim. Magness was a coach and scientific adviser not the janitor.
So again, why would Salazar tell Magness anything cheating related? Why would he have a lot of concrete evidence? What do you think this rampant doping is? What about the other instances Magness gave? Why would he lie? What do you think of Rupp using testosterone?
Sal isn't going to go around doping everyone on the team and telling everyone associated with NOP about it, come back from fantasy land.
Weakest Links wrote:
The FBI needs to go after the weakest links hard. Interrogate Hasay and Cain until they cry for mama. I'd be OK with Hasay and Cain only getting 10 years if it puts Rupp, Centro, Mo, Salazar and Radcliffe away for good.
They should hit NOPe and nike with the RICO act. Salazar should get life in Supermax for being a drug kingpin.
Just a wee bit harsh, but I get your drift, they went after FIFA so why not.
A lot of people are bringing up Lance Armstrong in relation to this but I'm not sure Lance and this case really have anything in common. Remember that the UCI and pro cyclists painted Lance as the mastermind of this huge doping ring that basically forced everyone to dope and those who didn't would have their careers ruined. Obviously this is great for everyone involved (except for Lance of course) and it takes everyone off the hook. The cyclists had no choice but to dope, otherwise Lance would ruin their lives. And now that he's been banned from the sport cycling can point out that without the huge villain (who was really running everything so sophisticatedly that the UCI had no chance of stopping him) the sport is cleaner than ever. So it's everyone's best interest to point the finger at Lance - regardless if it was the truth or not. I'm not sure if there's any kind of parallel in this case - the other ex-runners like the Goucher's don't have the same incentive to turn on Salazar like the cyclist did.
My big problem with this whole thing, as others have pointed out, is the complete lack of evidence. The Goucher's ran for Salazar for years and all they have is some bs stories (especially the Rupp tired one, that one is completely laughable and should make everyone question the rest of their stories) and a bottle reportedly given to them by Salazar. No other info - no schedules of the doping regimen they or others were on, no description of how Salazar managed to keep the doping completely hidden from his second in command, etc. Same with Magness, he has a picture supposedly of Galen Rupp's blood test but how are we to know that's really his (shouldn't the label G.R. be above the graph, not in it?) and a ridiculous story about pills being sent in a hollowed out book (why would you mail them rather than taking them personally?) There are also questions with the check - all it says is shipping expenses. Isn't $150 a lot of money to ship a tube? Or is that a payoff (pretty light considering)?
Finally is the doping that Salazar being accused of doing more a grey area? We know that athletes testosterone levels are different - if the max level is x, Runner A's level lower at y, and Rupp even lower at z, is it really cheating bringing it up to y (the same as Runner A and still lower than the max level?) Same with the thyroid medication, I'm guessing they are using at a low enough level not to trigger a positive drug test - so if it's at a legal level is it still cheating? These are all tough questions that I don't think are as black and white as people are saying.
HonestNauman wrote:
...if the doping program is so rampant I'd expect a bit more evidence to support that claim.
LOL, your fanboyism is grotesquely apparent. No one needs to prove anything to your satisfaction. NOP is DONE. Salazar is DONE. Rupp is DONE. FARAH is DONE. Got it.
HonestNauman wrote:
broken recordz wrote:No one is saying everyone at NOP knows about it brother. That's not how something stays secret. Use your brain.
So again, the only thing concrete evidence Magness can produce is the 2002 entry. Use your brain, it may not be running on the video display at the NOP training center but if the doping program is so rampant I'd expect a bit more evidence to support that claim. Magness was a coach and scientific adviser not the janitor.
This is beyond stupid. Nauman has to be a Nike shill.
Galen "alpha male" Rupp wrote:
rupp-certified saladbar wrote:"... a box arrived at his hotel room. Inside it he found a paperback thriller. Confused, he flipped it open. A section of the pages had been hollowed out to form a compartment into which two pills were taped. "At that point," Magness says, "my mind was like, this is stuff you see in movies, this is extremely strange."
Sounds pretty normal.
Would love to know what the book was...
Fifty Shades of Grey
Renato Canova wrote:
No, EPO is not an equalizer, because there is no way that athletes with less taletnt can reach the same level of athletes with better talent in long distances, of course if the most talented athletes have proper training.
What I say is that tough and proper training for the best African runners, born and training in altitude, produces physiological effects that can't be enhanced by any blood doping coming from external sources.
The effect of top training, and the effects of blood doping, are not cumulable.
With 4 months of proper hard training, for example, top athletes can increase their total volume of blood of about 25%, maintaining a very low viscosity, and this allows blood to circulate faster in the circulatory system. The same can't happen using EPO, since there is some increase in viscosity.
I don't have any "advanced science degree", but I coach many of the best Kenyan and Ethiopian in the World, I use to do blood tests for controlling their health, and this is exactly the reason because I know what happens with training, while who has an "advanced science degree" doesn't know, because the only thing they can know is the effect of easy training on average athletes (a statistical population very far from the population of top African athletes).
About the last paragraph, I can forgive everybody, but I can't avoid to give the plate of "not honest and stupid idiot" to people speaking about other people without knowing anything of them.
For example, now I'm the head coach in China for middle and long distances, and when I saw an athlete, last year before Asian Games, with strange parameters in their blood values (I had the opportunity to do, with all the National Team, weekly blood tests as research for collecting values about the evolution of the blood situation during training in altitude, since in Duoba, 2300m, there is a lab working every day), not included in National Team before (only the athletes officially in National Team are tested by the Chinese Antidoping Agency every 10 days - two weeks, every time of the season), I asked to the Chinese Agency itself to control that athletes, who at the end was banned for two years, because took EPO.
This only for explaining my position about doping.
Now, I repeat again : when we can finally discuss the effects of training at top level, and only at that time, we can start to understand the real effets of doping (I speak about blood doping, since it's acclarated that steroids can give advantages, under the side of muscle strength and ability to recover, that clean training can't produce).
This is quite frankly ridiculous. To say that Kenyans and Ethiopians (who coincidentally enough is who he coaches) get no benefit from EPO is totally absurd and should be a huge red flag for anyone that reads it. Even Lance Armstrong didn't use as a defense "I didn't take it as it had no effect."
Hard Man wrote:
Weakest Links wrote:The FBI needs to go after the weakest links hard. Interrogate Hasay and Cain until they cry for mama. I'd be OK with Hasay and Cain only getting 10 years if it puts Rupp, Centro, Mo, Salazar and Radcliffe away for good.
They should hit NOPe and nike with the RICO act. Salazar should get life in Supermax for being a drug kingpin.
Just a wee bit harsh, but I get your drift, they went after FIFA so why not.
"they went after FIFA" and are getting people to come clean already:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/sepp-blatter/11647665/Sepp-Blatter-FBI-investigation-live.htmlkevin spac-e wrote:
The house of cards is coming down...
Galen on testosterone and prednisone in HS? That was the only thing that really surprised. All the rest of it is sort of expected.
In HS they don't drug test. I find it very interesting where I assistant coach, 8/10 varsity runners take inhalers. Hard for me to believe the majority have asthma. Just saying.
Maybe Lance didn't use that defense, but Al does.
Rupp's hollow book wrote:
HonestNauman wrote:I work for Nike.
Nauman has to be a Nike shill.
Indeed, he is. The shills are out in force. They are putting their fingers in the dyke to stop the leaks. What they fail to see is the tidal wave that is crashing down on their heads.
It is over for NOP, Salazar, Rupp, and Farah.
It is time for Nike to implement the reboot plan. The future has arrived earlier than expected.