Flagpole wrote:
TTH wrote:
Major difference being Nixon on tape. That likely doesn't exist with Trump...
Well, we DO have Trump on tape conspiring with Michael Cohen to commit a FELONY Campaign Finance Law violation.
1) That is a FELONY.
2) That is CHEATING to win an election.
....and this is why you have no clue.
TTH wrote:
....and this is why you have no clue.
^ HI HARDLOPER . . . the most clueless poster on LRC!!
Red Tide Rick Scott's FL lead for the Senate is ever shrinking.
Scott 50.09% -- 4,094,763 votes
Nelson 49.91% -- 4,079,692 votes
Trollminator wrote:
Here is all that needs to happen... wrote:
... and it's simple... the dems and the "liberal" media (whatever that means) just need to ignore Trump --- ignore everything .... his rants, tweets and whatever else... just pretend he doesn't exist and to just go about the business of moving the democratic programs forward... The less Trump is in the news and headlines the madder and more outrageous he'll get... he'll do & say dumber and dumber things until the public (except his hard core base) will have had enough... then just find a normal candidate to run against him in 2020 and Trump is history...
it's so simple... just ignore his BS...
That sounds simple but it doesn’t work in practice and actually is detrimental to the other side’s cause. Very recent case of this was Brazil. When the winner Bolsonaro started he was widely perceived as a clown like Trump, not taken very seriously. What he had going initially was what Trump did, just served as an anti establishment voice. The media decided to largely ignore him until the very end (even now). The only time he was widely covered was as a result of an attempted assassination.
With the media ignoring him, he was forced to run his campaign on WhatsApp (sound familiar?). It worked like a charm and everything they threw at the wal stuck, even the insane conspiracies. The more the media ignored him the more those conspiracies were validated and the Moreno he was able to set himself apart as a real different candidate. It backfired completely.
The media tends to be annoying but the reality is most of what trump says and does would have been blown up even more by the media if it was a “normal” president. If they stop covering him they will look like they are scheming. They have to be transparent and consistent in their approach. It doesn’t always seem productive but it’s mostly ok. Your alternative solution wouldn’t work though.
...however, I just feel the more traction that is given to the guy the worse it gets... what I mean about ignoring him is not making such a big deal out of everything he does to get a reaction (which is everything)... the more coverage and attention he gets the more his base of fans believe what he says... there is nothing the media or anyone can do or say that will convince them that what trump says isn't truth so the more coverage his BS gets the more support he gets from his beloved fans...
and when i say fans that is exactly what they are... he's a celeb to them... they love that they have someone to look up to... so much so that they actually think he's one of them... funny stuff
(side note #1... here is a great business idea for trump... he should add sports jerseys to his collection of goods to sell to his fan base... his team name (on the front of a red/white/blue jersey) would say M A G A and on the back it should say TRUMP... his fans would eat that up... I guarantee it.)
anyway, i guess there is no simple answer... this country (and many others) are going the wrong direction... away from civility and a peaceful world... sad but true... fingers crossed this doesn't end badly for the US/World but it's not looking good...
(side note#2, while i don't follow Brazilian politics closely ... my take is that Bolsonaro became legitimate and a celeb because of the attempted assassination... he won largely because of that... i don't feel that the media ignoring him had much to do with it... and of course, we can't know how things would have turned out had the media taken him seriously from the beginning so using that as an example of what not to do doesn't really fly.)
CluelessLoper wrote:
^ HI HARDLOPER . . . the most clueless poster on LRC!!
Would Hardloper be explaining to Flaggy P the best way of removing Trump from office instead of his own clueless fantastico and losing process?
TTH wrote:
CluelessLoper wrote:
^ HI HARDLOPER . . . the most clueless poster on LRC!!
Would Hardloper be explaining to Flaggy P the best way of removing Trump from office instead of his own clueless fantastico and losing process?
Yeah, brah, as you have cluelessly done so many times.
Flagpole wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
Ok I do find that very convincing. However, we still need to discount the moral and ethical cushion afforded Trump from the start. Clinton and other politicians were supposed to always be clean, so any little dirt stuck that much more. Trump was a known criminal and shady deal maker when he was elected. They WANTED that. He kicked a$$ in helping those senate races so the bar is still low for him. If Mueller doesnt produce definitive proof, Trump will be given the benefit of the doubt. I think we are past normal politics, we are dealing with a different beast. The greatest damage was already done. I’d rather see him in jail then just impeached and still residing in the White House. I think some of you are wrong that despite a failed impeachment attempt he could still see jail after. I really doubt the focus will remain on that and everyone will be eager to move on. That will be a conciliatory measure to try to unite the country. I would support any impeachment attempt but strategically I don’t think it will damage much unless it’s a slam dunk.
Trollminator,
Trump was NOT thought of as a criminal and shady deal maker by the vast majority of Americans in 2016. They thought of him as a successful businessman, and they often said that at rallies...that they liked that he was a successful businessman and that the government needed someone in there like that. They also REALLY liked that he supposedly wasn't taking any money from anyone. There was no part of his base who thought he was a criminal and they wanted that. They might decide to overlook that now based on other things they see as positive from him, but they didn't view him as a criminal then.
I used to believe that but I am not so sure after the strong turnout in the midterms and good performance in the states he helped campaign. They have a lot more information now and are ok with it - if they overlooked it from the start it was intentional. You could have Googled trump any time prior to 2016 and a lot would have surfaced on the first page. I stopped giving trumpers the benefit of the doubt. They don’t mind that he’s a criminal as long as he doesn’t get caught and keeps owning the libs.
ok...perhaps it's not simple... wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
That sounds simple but it doesn’t work in practice and actually is detrimental to the other side’s cause. Very recent case of this was Brazil. When the winner Bolsonaro started he was widely perceived as a clown like Trump, not taken very seriously. What he had going initially was what Trump did, just served as an anti establishment voice. The media decided to largely ignore him until the very end (even now). The only time he was widely covered was as a result of an attempted assassination.
With the media ignoring him, he was forced to run his campaign on WhatsApp (sound familiar?). It worked like a charm and everything they threw at the wal stuck, even the insane conspiracies. The more the media ignored him the more those conspiracies were validated and the Moreno he was able to set himself apart as a real different candidate. It backfired completely.
The media tends to be annoying but the reality is most of what trump says and does would have been blown up even more by the media if it was a “normal” president. If they stop covering him they will look like they are scheming. They have to be transparent and consistent in their approach. It doesn’t always seem productive but it’s mostly ok. Your alternative solution wouldn’t work though.
...however, I just feel the more traction that is given to the guy the worse it gets... what I mean about ignoring him is not making such a big deal out of everything he does to get a reaction (which is everything)... the more coverage and attention he gets the more his base of fans believe what he says... there is nothing the media or anyone can do or say that will convince them that what trump says isn't truth so the more coverage his BS gets the more support he gets from his beloved fans...
and when i say fans that is exactly what they are... he's a celeb to them... they love that they have someone to look up to... so much so that they actually think he's one of them... funny stuff
(side note #1... here is a great business idea for trump... he should add sports jerseys to his collection of goods to sell to his fan base... his team name (on the front of a red/white/blue jersey) would say M A G A and on the back it should say TRUMP... his fans would eat that up... I guarantee it.)
anyway, i guess there is no simple answer... this country (and many others) are going the wrong direction... away from civility and a peaceful world... sad but true... fingers crossed this doesn't end badly for the US/World but it's not looking good...
(side note#2, while i don't follow Brazilian politics closely ... my take is that Bolsonaro became legitimate and a celeb because of the attempted assassination... he won largely because of that... i don't feel that the media ignoring him had much to do with it... and of course, we can't know how things would have turned out had the media taken him seriously from the beginning so using that as an example of what not to do doesn't really fly.)
There’s a bias about the MSM on both sides. Think about it, CNN can air any opinion on Trump, and whether it enrages a conservative or not is completely irrelevant because they aren’t watching. Same for FOX - liberals don’t tune in. And despite what is actually aired on CNN and how they lean politically, if FOX says CNN is 100% liberal then that’s what conservatives will believe.
Bolsonaro had a lot of traction beforehand and the polls underestimated him from very early on until the end. He crushed it and had a feverish following on WhatsApp. The knife attack was the icing on the cake.
50.09 wrote:
Red Tide Rick Scott's FL lead for the Senate is ever shrinking.
Scott 50.09% -- 4,094,763 votes
Nelson 49.91% -- 4,079,692 votes
15,000 votes - no wonder Trump is losing it on Twitter. But rest assure they will fvck up the recount worse than on election night... to the GOPs favor of course
Tyrone ReXXXing wrote:
After Trump skipped several events honoring the 100 year anniversary of the end of WW1 (at which dozens and dozens or world leaders attended), and skipped events honoring the American war dead, because it was raining.....
Nicholas Soames, the grandson of the former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and a Conservative Party member of the British Parliament, tweeted, “They died with their face to the foe and that pathetic inadequate @realDonaldTrump couldn’t even defy the weather to pay his respects to The Fallen.” He added the hashtag “#hesnotfittorepresenthisgreatcountry.” "
Remember when the right claimed to be savior of our troops? Yeah that went poof real quick
Trollminator wrote:
50.09 wrote:
Red Tide Rick Scott's FL lead for the Senate is ever shrinking.
Scott 50.09% -- 4,094,763 votes
Nelson 49.91% -- 4,079,692 votes
15,000 votes - no wonder Trump is losing it on Twitter. But rest assure they will fvck up the recount worse than on election night... to the GOPs favor of course
UPDATE
Scott 50.07% -- 4,098,107 votes
Nelson 49.93% -- 4,085,545 votes
12,500 vote gap.
Flagpole wrote:
TTH wrote:
Major difference being Nixon on tape. That likely doesn't exist with Trump...
Well, we DO have Trump on tape conspiring with Michael Cohen to commit a FELONY Campaign Finance Law violation.
1) That is a FELONY.
2) That is CHEATING to win an election.
So Flagpole knows more about the law than Alan Dershowitz. Classic.
50.07 wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
15,000 votes - no wonder Trump is losing it on Twitter. But rest assure they will fvck up the recount worse than on election night... to the GOPs favor of course
UPDATE
Scott 50.07% -- 4,098,107 votes
Nelson 49.93% -- 4,085,545 votes
12,500 vote gap.
If I was a betting man my money would be on a split; DeSantis and Nelson winning.
Subway Surfers wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Well, we DO have Trump on tape conspiring with Michael Cohen to commit a FELONY Campaign Finance Law violation.
1) That is a FELONY.
2) That is CHEATING to win an election.
So Flagpole knows more about the law than Alan Dershowitz. Classic.
Michael Cohen pleaded GUILTY to two FELONY counts of Campaign Finance Law Violation. He said Trump told him to make those payments, and a report in the Wall Street Journal says that Trump was involved in just about every stage of those payments. If that is not a felony, then why did Cohen plead guilty to two felonies? If AD believes otherwise, then he is wrong. I'll go with currently working attorneys and judges rather than a Trump apologizer legal has been.
Flagpole wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
So Flagpole knows more about the law than Alan Dershowitz. Classic.
Michael Cohen pleaded GUILTY to two FELONY counts of Campaign Finance Law Violation. He said Trump told him to make those payments, and a report in the Wall Street Journal says that Trump was involved in just about every stage of those payments. If that is not a felony, then why did Cohen plead guilty to two felonies? If AD believes otherwise, then he is wrong. I'll go with currently working attorneys and judges rather than a Trump apologizer legal has been.
Yes, I'd like TTH to tell us where Dershowitz says Tiny is innocent of the campaign finance felonies that Cohen pleaded guilty to. I don't think Dershowitz ever said that.
I think I remember Dershowitz saying that Tiny was in trouble on that one.
Fat hurts wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Michael Cohen pleaded GUILTY to two FELONY counts of Campaign Finance Law Violation. He said Trump told him to make those payments, and a report in the Wall Street Journal says that Trump was involved in just about every stage of those payments. If that is not a felony, then why did Cohen plead guilty to two felonies? If AD believes otherwise, then he is wrong. I'll go with currently working attorneys and judges rather than a Trump apologizer legal has been.
Yes, I'd like TTH to tell us where Dershowitz says Tiny is innocent of the campaign finance felonies that Cohen pleaded guilty to. I don't think Dershowitz ever said that.
I think I remember Dershowitz saying that Tiny was in trouble on that one.
Excuse me. Subway Surfers needs to tell us about it. Not TTH.
Did the FL election officials follow the law (specifically in Broward)?
I have to say that Benghazi literally was a witch hunt.
They saw Hillary as a witch and had to come up with some trial for her.
Does anyone think that Hillary was maliciously irresponsible in her actions that lead to the death of those four Americans who were stationed in a dangerous part of the world?
As opposed to, does anyone think that Trump broke laws and crossed serious ethics lines to gain political power and money?
Trollminator wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
Trollminator,
Trump was NOT thought of as a criminal and shady deal maker by the vast majority of Americans in 2016. They thought of him as a successful businessman, and they often said that at rallies...that they liked that he was a successful businessman and that the government needed someone in there like that. They also REALLY liked that he supposedly wasn't taking any money from anyone. There was no part of his base who thought he was a criminal and they wanted that. They might decide to overlook that now based on other things they see as positive from him, but they didn't view him as a criminal then.
I used to believe that but I am not so sure after the strong turnout in the midterms and good performance in the states he helped campaign. They have a lot more information now and are ok with it - if they overlooked it from the start it was intentional. You could have Googled trump any time prior to 2016 and a lot would have surfaced on the first page. I stopped giving trumpers the benefit of the doubt. They don’t mind that he’s a criminal as long as he doesn’t get caught and keeps owning the libs.
What do you mean you stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt? There's a lot of good and honest people out there who feel marginalized and who are being easily taken advantage of by talk show radio hosts.
L L wrote:
I have to say that Benghazi literally was a witch hunt.
They saw Hillary as a witch and had to come up with some trial for her.
Does anyone think that Hillary was maliciously irresponsible in her actions that lead to the death of those four Americans who were stationed in a dangerous part of the world?
As opposed to, does anyone think that Trump broke laws and crossed serious ethics lines to gain political power and money?
Why do you guys ALWAYS bring up Hillary? She's not the President.