L L wrote:
And did they see all of these Benghazi investigations and long hearings on Hillary?
No convictions there, but they pursued it.
I will say that those Hillary investigations stuck with Trump voters and they thought she must of done something wrong.
I think that you must of done something wrong here.
Here is all that needs to happen... wrote:
... and it's simple... the dems and the "liberal" media (whatever that means) just need to ignore Trump --- ignore everything .... his rants, tweets and whatever else... just pretend he doesn't exist and to just go about the business of moving the democratic programs forward... The less Trump is in the news and headlines the madder and more outrageous he'll get... he'll do & say dumber and dumber things until the public (except his hard core base) will have had enough... then just find a normal candidate to run against him in 2020 and Trump is history...
it's so simple... just ignore his BS...
That sounds simple but it doesn’t work in practice and actually is detrimental to the other side’s cause. Very recent case of this was Brazil. When the winner Bolsonaro started he was widely perceived as a clown like Trump, not taken very seriously. What he had going initially was what Trump did, just served as an anti establishment voice. The media decided to largely ignore him until the very end (even now). The only time he was widely covered was as a result of an attempted assassination.
With the media ignoring him, he was forced to run his campaign on WhatsApp (sound familiar?). It worked like a charm and everything they threw at the wal stuck, even the insane conspiracies. The more the media ignored him the more those conspiracies were validated and the Moreno he was able to set himself apart as a real different candidate. It backfired completely.
The media tends to be annoying but the reality is most of what trump says and does would have been blown up even more by the media if it was a “normal” president. If they stop covering him they will look like they are scheming. They have to be transparent and consistent in their approach. It doesn’t always seem productive but it’s mostly ok. Your alternative solution wouldn’t work though.
Pookie Washington wrote:
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
Trump's racism has consequences.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/nazi-salute-boys-baraboo-high-school-wisconsin-photo-junior-prom-students-sieg-heil-a8630181.htmlhttps://thinkprogress.org/trump-wants-to-cut-off-disaster-relief-to-puerto-rico-f9cfdb684cf3/Anyone who tries to deny the fact that Trump has created an comfotable environment for racists like those dumb white boys throwing up the Nazi salute.....is a fool. White Supremacists are emboldened by 45 and everyone knows it. Why do you think the rednecks, Nazis and Klansman LOVE Trump sooooooo much?
Trump will never condemn such acts because those votes are extremely sticky - these extremists are first in line to vote.
https://www.myajc.com/rf/image_medium/Pub/p9/MyAJC/2018/02/06/Images/newsEngin.21176103_DSCN0441obama-shopped-3.jpgPookie Washington wrote:
Anyone who tries to deny the fact that Trump has created an comfotable environment for racists like those dumb white boys throwing up the Nazi salute.....is a fool. White Supremacists are emboldened by 45 and everyone knows it. Why do you think the rednecks, Nazis and Klansman LOVE Trump sooooooo much?
Flagpole wrote:
Trollminator wrote:
Flagpole - what would you prefer? A) Impeachment proceedings with a low probability of success for the sake of doing the right thing. If he’s cleared here he’d probably get away with everything, or B) wait it out with Dems winning the Senate and presidency in 2020, plus the ability to go after Trump for crimes later. IMO those are the two likely options. The reality is given their positional power, POTUS is above the law, and impeachment is a political and not a judicial process. So unless Mueller’s report is super air tight there is little chance of prevailing because Trump will not speak under oath.
What is right isn't necessarily what I would prefer...that's where integrity lies. I am a rule of law person, and believe we should follow Constitution.
There is no guarantee that what you provide as givens will happen.
Impeaching a President hurts not only the President but the party. There is no guarantee that this will embolden him and people who like him. In fact, this led to the election of a Republican President after Clinton was impeached.
These are the reason I believe the House impeaching Trump is the right thing to do (again only if the Mueller report shows impeachable actions):
1) Shows we just don't allow our President to do what he wants with no consequence. And being impeached even if he then is not convicted by the Senate is a consequence. This is part of the reason Americans disliked Hillary so much. I would be fine with that kind of dislike being handed down to his children...children who have expressed an interest in running for President. We don't need that or any other Dictator wannabe candidates.
2) There is a right side and wrong side of history. If Senate Republicans don't convict Trump based on what I believe will be a very telling harsh report of Trump's crimes, they will be on the wrong side of history, and they will suffer the consequences of that.
Mainly though, I don't view this through a political chess lens. If a person in power commits crimes, they should be charged with those crimes, or in this case have to go through the impeachment process. Not to do so shows a willingness to allow it to happen.
Though I admire anyone sticking to principles, the reality is the bar was lowered for Trump considerably when he was elected as the Republican nominee. So unfortunately it’s a bit more subjective as to whether a president has broken the law or not. You don’t see many people actually arguing he didn’t break laws, you see them arguing he shouldn’t be removed and that there is simply no basis for any investigation due to whatsboutisms.
We all know just about everything in the Mueller report is going to constitute an impeachable offense. That is already baked in based on the defensive and aggressive right wing rhetoric we’ve been hearing everyday. That’s how we know the goalpost has moved for impeachment. Sure, it’s nice to think we want to be on the right side of history but I’d rather make sure he is out once and for all than taking a punt that might release him of culpability. The Mueller report will have to directly prove, without any doubt, that Trump was directly involved in criminal activity. That’s the bar for this presidency.
L L wrote:
And did they see all of these Benghazi investigations and long hearings on Hillary?
No convictions there, but they pursued it.
I will say that those Hillary investigations stuck with Trump voters and they thought she must of done something wrong.
Ok I do find that very convincing. However, we still need to discount the moral and ethical cushion afforded Trump from the start. Clinton and other politicians were supposed to always be clean, so any little dirt stuck that much more. Trump was a known criminal and shady deal maker when he was elected. They WANTED that. He kicked a$$ in helping those senate races so the bar is still low for him. If Mueller doesnt produce definitive proof, Trump will be given the benefit of the doubt. I think we are past normal politics, we are dealing with a different beast. The greatest damage was already done. I’d rather see him in jail then just impeached and still residing in the White House. I think some of you are wrong that despite a failed impeachment attempt he could still see jail after. I really doubt the focus will remain on that and everyone will be eager to move on. That will be a conciliatory measure to try to unite the country. I would support any impeachment attempt but strategically I don’t think it will damage much unless it’s a slam dunk.
Runningart2004 wrote:
And people forget that Clinton never got close to 50% of the popular vote in either election
Alan
I would call 49.2% in 1996 fairly close to 50%.
L L wrote:
And did they see all of these Benghazi investigations and long hearings on Hillary?
No convictions there, but they pursued it.
I will say that those Hillary investigations stuck with Trump voters and they thought she must of done something wrong.
CORRECT AGAIN!
I should state though, and I think you share this opinion, that the impeachment process should begin NOT because it might make people finally decide not to like Trump, but only because it is the rule of law path we have against a criminal President while he is still in office.
I am only interested in truth and justice. I am not interested in political posturing.
Rodney1984 wrote:
The truth is Democrats don't have anything on Trump other than false accusations drummed up by the liberal media. They do have a whole lot of hate for him and this keeps this thread semi interesting.
The DEMOCRATS don't have anything on Trump, Republican Robert Mueller does.
Flagpole wrote:
Rodney1984 wrote:
The truth is Democrats don't have anything on Trump other than false accusations drummed up by the liberal media. They do have a whole lot of hate for him and this keeps this thread semi interesting.
The DEMOCRATS don't have anything on Trump, Republican Robert Mueller does.
What does he have, Flagpole?
The Gallant Pig Man wrote:
Giver of ratings wrote:
0/10
You have to at least seem like you aren’t trolling.
Right? So stupid to think that modern political discourse actually makes an impression on people. I bet all those Hitler Youth and their parents voted for Hillary.
Just a Wonderin’ wrote:
I wonder if any act like that ever happened before Trump.
Yeah, remember the 90s when pogs, beanie babies, and vintage SS uniforms were all the rage with the kids? I remember when my friends and I would get together and play Sieg Heil. What fun we had. Totally normal thing for well-adjusted kids to do.
Way to not answer the question.
You’re probably one of those dolts who thought that Obama’s derogatory comments about police emboldened some to commit acts of violence against police.
Trollminator wrote:
L L wrote:
And did they see all of these Benghazi investigations and long hearings on Hillary?
No convictions there, but they pursued it.
I will say that those Hillary investigations stuck with Trump voters and they thought she must of done something wrong.
Ok I do find that very convincing. However, we still need to discount the moral and ethical cushion afforded Trump from the start. Clinton and other politicians were supposed to always be clean, so any little dirt stuck that much more. Trump was a known criminal and shady deal maker when he was elected. They WANTED that. He kicked a$$ in helping those senate races so the bar is still low for him. If Mueller doesnt produce definitive proof, Trump will be given the benefit of the doubt. I think we are past normal politics, we are dealing with a different beast. The greatest damage was already done. I’d rather see him in jail then just impeached and still residing in the White House. I think some of you are wrong that despite a failed impeachment attempt he could still see jail after. I really doubt the focus will remain on that and everyone will be eager to move on. That will be a conciliatory measure to try to unite the country. I would support any impeachment attempt but strategically I don’t think it will damage much unless it’s a slam dunk.
Trollminator,
Trump was NOT thought of as a criminal and shady deal maker by the vast majority of Americans in 2016. They thought of him as a successful businessman, and they often said that at rallies...that they liked that he was a successful businessman and that the government needed someone in there like that. They also REALLY liked that he supposedly wasn't taking any money from anyone. There was no part of his base who thought he was a criminal and they wanted that. They might decide to overlook that now based on other things they see as positive from him, but they didn't view him as a criminal then.
BestShot wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
The DEMOCRATS don't have anything on Trump, Republican Robert Mueller does.
What does he have, Flagpole?
We will all find out at the same time. I have said many times what I believe he will have. If you want to find my list, search for "chattels". At least one time I forgot to add Emoluments Clause Violation.
Flagpole wrote:
We will all find out at the same time. I have said many times what I believe he will have. If you want to find my list, search for "chattels". At least one time I forgot to add Emoluments Clause Violation.
Which thing on your list would you say is most likely?
Hardloper wrote:
Flagpole wrote:
We will all find out at the same time. I have said many times what I believe he will have. If you want to find my list, search for "chattels". At least one time I forgot to add Emoluments Clause Violation.
Which thing on your list would you say is most likely?
Obstruction of Justice
Right, he should not be impeached for any reason other than strong evidence of high crimes.
Like evidence that he instructed Flynn to discuss sanctions with Russia in December 2016 and then fired James Comey when Comey presented Trump with this information.
And then admitted on national TV that he fired Comey for his own personal reasons and not at the recommendation of Rosenstein.
And then told the Russians in the White House that he fired Comey to alleviate pressure on a Russian investigation.
Or maybe Congress will see the financial transactions that Cohen did on behalf of Trump leading up to the election and things may not be on the up and up.
Sinema wins Arizona.
Trump bullies Republican Flake into not running and AZ picked a Democrat to replace him.
After Trump skipped several events honoring the 100 year anniversary of the end of WW1 (at which dozens and dozens or world leaders attended), and skipped events honoring the American war dead, because it was raining.....
Nicholas Soames, the grandson of the former British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and a Conservative Party member of the British Parliament, tweeted, “They died with their face to the foe and that pathetic inadequate @realDonaldTrump couldn’t even defy the weather to pay his respects to The Fallen.” He added the hashtag “#hesnotfittorepresenthisgreatcountry.” "
L L wrote:
https://youtu.be/-b71f2eYdTc?t=21TTH wrote:
Major difference being Nixon on tape. That likely doesn't exist with Trump and, even if it did, would not sway his constituents.
That isn't nearly at the level Nixon's clear attempt to obstruct the investigation itself was. It would be political football which would amount to nothing.
Rigged for Hillary wrote:
Pookie Washington wrote:
Anyone who tries to deny the fact that Trump has created an comfotable environment for racists like those dumb white boys throwing up the Nazi salute.....is a fool. White Supremacists are emboldened by 45 and everyone knows it. Why do you think the rednecks, Nazis and Klansman LOVE Trump sooooooo much?
0/10
Trump has Jewish grandchildren. Why does Israel love Trump so much?
You forgot a 1. It's 10/10.
