Atlantic Region XC 2008

Back to racing wrote:

Who is going to come out on top in Ohio this weekend between NYU and St. Lawrence? Does either have a shot at Case Western? Could Ferdonia take down Platsburgh at Sunyacs?

St. Lawrence and Plattsburgh will beat Fredonia (not Ferdonia)

DeanLauer21 wrote:

Also, The last time States was at Hamilton the top three finishers were Joslyn, Donohoe, and Lowe and all three seemed to turn in slower than expected performances at Rochester's race track of a cross country course the following week.

To be fair, that race track of a course was pretty darn wet in spots. That's the problem with such a flat course - it often doesn't drain very well. So neither States nor Regionals was fast that year.

The course at Regionals in 06 was pretty wet, but many parts of it were still in good shape. All thinks being equal, I think the Regionals course was faster by a good 20 seconds, mostly because it didn't have any real sustained hills. Hamilton's course is a good strength test, not a course for the rhythm runners.

...Unless you're Kosgei and you're just -that- much better than everyone else. He really is scary good for DIII, you have to wonder if he isn't being scouted by DIs with some scholarships to toss around.

How can anyone give geneseo number one votes over cortlands men right now. Clearly cortland can and will win any meet they choose to against D3 teams.

This week I think NYU will take down SLU. Both teams are very good but NYU is finally racing and showed some impressive times at Metro. I also think that Back to racing might have a point with Fredonia taking down Plattsburgh. Looking at the Hamilton results shows they didn’t run to well. Heyman only at mid 26 when he’s a sub 2530 runner....I don’t know about that. I think Rochester will make the leap over Plattsburgh as well. Rochester and Ithaca should be a good match up come regional time. Both teams have tight packs and should shuffle in pretty well with each other to make a close score. Anyways, lets get back to the more important topic....top 5:

Cortland

Geneseo

NYU

TCNJ

SLU

Below that:

Ithaca

U of R

Fredonia

Plattsburgh

RIT

I was able to get to hamilton to see Pete which was lovely...however I also gathered that...well not sure if I should tell anyone this but 6 of plattsburghs top 7 tempoed the first 3 miles...plus they didn't run their 2 man from the geneseo meet...idk if Plattsburgh usually tries to keep stuff like that off the radar but its out now...

I was there too and I can say that Plattsburgh did not tempo the first 3 miles. They can say what they want, but the course got the best of them. Heyman was with Kosgei in the first mile and Kosgei was at 5:06ish. Heyman averaged 5:07 at Geneseo. Looks more like race pace to me. Granted Heyman might have backed off after Kosgei put in an insane surge, but the rest of the Plattsburg runners did not look that relaxed or that good over the last 2 mile where they should have been fresh if they really did tempo the first part.

rage wrote:

I was able to get to hamilton to see Pete which was lovely...however I also gathered that...well not sure if I should tell anyone this but 6 of plattsburghs top 7 tempoed the first 3 miles...plus they didn't run their 2 man from the geneseo meet...idk if Plattsburgh usually tries to keep stuff like that off the radar but its out now...

Having seen the race, I would tend to agree with NERunner2.

honestly I have to agree...the pace that they started the race was probably way too hard for a tempo run especially on that course...heymann wasn't with Kosgei at the mile though maybe you're thinking of a different plattsburgh runner that was up there a couple seconds behind him...anyway after the first mile it looked like the plattsburgh guys settled into the correct paces but it was kind of a too little too late thing...

If you had your eyes open you would have noticed Heymann go from outside the top 20 at 3 miles to 2nd, and the rest of their top 5, except for 1 of their guys who looked to have an off race, move up from outside the top 30 to top 15-20 performances. Rage does seem to be right though, that the speed of the first mile on that course took them out a little too hard for it to be tempo and they probably did not have as much left in their legs the last two miles as they should have (except for Heymann who looked like he was still cruising while he was moving through the field). They seem to have a different top 5-7 every meet, which is definitely a good thing for the future as well.

Will we see the A teams of Plattsburgh v. Ithaca V. Rochester V. SLU V. RPI V. some top NE region schools at Saratoga in two weeks? Could be a good meet to help at large bids if the NE teams run their top guys.

Heyman was probably the only one who really had the ability to do a tempo in the first part of the race. For team points, all he had to do is finish 1st or 2nd for them to do well. However, for the rest, the numbers add up to a race effort. For example, Alex Sico ran a 26:33 on a much easier Geneseo course and a 27:10 on a much more challenging Hamilton course. Times at Hamilton normally run 35-55 seconds slower. Heyman ran 62 seconds slower(than Geneseo), Sico ran 37 seconds slower, Jackson ran 61 seconds slower, Grim ran 20 seconds slower, Ver ran 41 seconds slower, and Schwartz ran 7 seconds faster. All fall in or pretty close to that differential. When you look at the numbers and the difficulty of the course (rolling hills, soft grass footing, and the great number of sharp turns) there was not a lot of tempo running going on, if any. I think they underestimated the course and perhaps the competition.

Underestimating the course and competition? I dont know what you mean by that but I'm pretty sure out of the top teams racing at Hamilton very few of them cared if they won or placed well. (Cortland for example) Who cares if they tempoed or not? Lots of teams do it. Sounds like this thread is having a super slow news day.

Think this quote can sum it up quite well.

booya

The talk of Plattsburgh has killed the thread!

Who will win this weekend? SLU or NYU? Will Brockport or RPI do enough to move into the top 10 in the region?

NYU is going to destroy SLU. A YOUNG team averaging lower 26's @ VCP without their senior no.1, compared to a team who's had to go the kenyan rout to even be in the hunt. People forgot about these guys and we're all about to reminded as to why the won nationals last year.

I'd also like to mention that If both NYU and SLU represent well at this meet it only helps the atlantic region look even stronger and possibly get 5 teams to nationals.

PS- My regional predictions

Cortland

Geneseo

NYU

SLU

Plattsburgh

TCNJ

Ithaca

I like NYU much more now than I did before METS and third may not be out of the question for them but NYU will not "destroy" SLU this weekend. Although I guess that depends on what the definition of destroy is as it relates to cross country racing.

P.S. I admire your ballsy prediction most notably Plattsburgh and I do like what Lynch is doing with the programs up there and I think they will definitely qualify for nationals. However I think it'll be next year that they qualify not this year. Good post Mr. Boston we need more like you on this board.

SLU was in the hunt to go to nationals last year without one runner from Kenya. Boo hoo if you're afraid to race them now. Both of the guys that SLU stole from their beds at the super elite kenyan top secret training center didn't even run cross country until this year. Phew, good thing they are miles in front of SLU's other guys or else SLU would have no chance?

It wouldn't shock me to see Kip, Mwenda, or both not run in Ohio this weekend. It's tough to say if NYU or SLU will come out on top but I'd like to see SLU beat NYU without their full (scholarship) team.

Trick question. NYU has a better pack and better front runners.