Cheptegei at 5000m global champs: 8th (age 19), 1st (24), 9th (25) (didn't compete at age 18, 20, 22, 26, 27).
Ingebrigtsen at 5000m global champs: 4th (age 18), 1st (21), 1st (22), 1st (23) (didn't compete at age 20).
Obvious advantage for Ingebrigtsen (even when he will not medal anymore in the next four years - he is four years younger).
We have to wait what Ingebrigtsen can achieve in a arace for time - so far he hasn't had any during his prime.
So how does Ingebrigtsen get from 12:48 to 12:35, and 27:27 to 26:11? Do a Katir? Perhaps he already has.
What's funny is that no one has even mentioned that 12:48 was a tactical race where Jakob closed in 56 the last lap. 12:48 wasn't even his limit then on that day, and it certainly isn't now.
Same narrative as when Jakob narrowly lost to Gebriwhet in a 13:02 race where their last lap was 52 seconds. You were probably saying the same thing - can't break 13 minutes, he hasn't done it.
He's already destroyed Farah on time at everything he's competed on the track. He can only make the margin grow. He's already destroyed Farah on world records. He's never run a time trial 5000m. When he ran a quick one against Hagos, the kind of the fast 5000s, he destroyed him in the kick years ago for that 12:48. His 3k time is worth 12:30. He's destroyed all of those 12:30s and 12:40s guys on the circuit now three times at World and Olympic championships at 5000m. By the time he's Farah's age when the latter won his first world medals, he'll have had three more chances (2025/2027/2028) to earn more medals. In fact, he has a chance to equal Farah's career total by age 28 (12: 10 gold, 2 silver). At 29, he has a shot at passing Farah in medal count (2029 World's). He already has more world records than Cheptegei on the track and one more medal. That ship has sailed. He's already ahead of Cheptegei for his career, and years younger.
Armstronglivs, why do you have a personal vendetta against Jakob? Whenever I see or hear about Jakob, I'm inspired about running. I have this urge to glaze him to kingdom high. He is good for the sport. Why do you hate that
I don't have a vendetta. He is simply overrated here by those who think he will achieve what only exists in their imagination. He is a great md runner - but not the best - but will likely never be a great distance runner, which would require him to win numerous golds over 5k/10k or above, as Farah did, or set the world marks in the championship distances, as Bekele and Cheptegei have.
None of them in championship distances. Farah has 10 Olympic and world Championship golds to Ingebrigtsen's 4. It includes Farah's consecutive Olympic victories in the "Viren double" - an unbelievable feat in this era. It is a competitive record of attainment that Ingebrigtsen will never match. He also has golds over a distance that Ingebrigtsen will never have, which is the 10k, as Ingebrigtsen is not a distance runner as Farah was - and this thread among others suggests Ingebrigtsen will become a top 5k/10k runner. He won't.
Ingebrigtsen has a gold in an event Farah doesn’t have any in, the 1500m. Farah will never achieve that. Ingebrigtsen holds the 2000m, 3000m, 2 mile, world records. He also holds the 1500 and mile european records, as well as the world record indoors over 1500m. Ingebrigtsen is also a 6x European Champion and 5x European Indoor Champion. Farah will never surpass that as well. Farah also only has 1 European Cross Country Championship title, Ingebrigtsen has 8. Farah will mever surpass that as well. Jakob has 4 Diamond League Trophies, Farah only 1. Jakob has one medal for the Indoor World Championships, Farah none.
You're simply pointing out that they largely excelled at different distances. However you continue to overlook that at the very top level, of Olympic and WC golds, Farah far outstrips Ingebrigtsen 10-4. His Viren double in consecutive Olympics is far better than anything Ingebrigtsen has achieved or will achieve. Minor honours in lesser championships don't change that.
So how does Ingebrigtsen get from 12:48 to 12:35, and 27:27 to 26:11? Do a Katir? Perhaps he already has.
What's funny is that no one has even mentioned that 12:48 was a tactical race where Jakob closed in 56 the last lap. 12:48 wasn't even his limit then on that day, and it certainly isn't now.
Same narrative as when Jakob narrowly lost to Gebriwhet in a 13:02 race where their last lap was 52 seconds. You were probably saying the same thing - can't break 13 minutes, he hasn't done it.
Whether he can run faster than 12:48 gives no indication that he could actually beat 12:35. Wins in tactical races don't show that.
Ingebrigtsen has a gold in an event Farah doesn’t have any in, the 1500m. Farah will never achieve that. Ingebrigtsen holds the 2000m, 3000m, 2 mile, world records. He also holds the 1500 and mile european records, as well as the world record indoors over 1500m. Ingebrigtsen is also a 6x European Champion and 5x European Indoor Champion. Farah will never surpass that as well. Farah also only has 1 European Cross Country Championship title, Ingebrigtsen has 8. Farah will mever surpass that as well. Jakob has 4 Diamond League Trophies, Farah only 1. Jakob has one medal for the Indoor World Championships, Farah none.
You're simply pointing out that they largely excelled at different distances. However you continue to overlook that at the very top level, of Olympic and WC golds, Farah far outstrips Ingebrigtsen 10-4. His Viren double in consecutive Olympics is far better than anything Ingebrigtsen has achieved or will achieve. Minor honours in lesser championships don't change that.
MD: 800 - 2000
LD (distance): 3000 - 10000
Ingebrigtsen so far has excelled in the range 1500 - 5000 where he clearly is the best currently, in the last decade and one of the top five all-time.
If Farah has done better than Ingebrigtsen is highly debatable.
Army shifting the goalposts to world records in championship distances is funny considering how highly he's talked about the 3000 world record before, how nobody would beat it, and now it's arguably the strongest world record ever set on the track
You shouldn't be making such predictions. You are really bad at them.
None of the predictions that suggest Ingebrigtsen will be the greatest distance runner of all time are close to being fulfilled. He has two outdoor non championship distance wr's - that's it so far, and this from a guy who says he wants them all from the 1500 to the marathon. There are no guarantees in sport and especially longevity. Careers can end at any time. So might his.
As I have said, he is an exceptional md runner and especially from 2k-2 mile. But nothing he has done suggests he is going to become one of the great distance runners, i.e from 5k-10k up. That's a pretty safe prediction.
You're simply pointing out that they largely excelled at different distances. However you continue to overlook that at the very top level, of Olympic and WC golds, Farah far outstrips Ingebrigtsen 10-4. His Viren double in consecutive Olympics is far better than anything Ingebrigtsen has achieved or will achieve. Minor honours in lesser championships don't change that.
MD: 800 - 2000
LD (distance): 3000 - 10000
Ingebrigtsen so far has excelled in the range 1500 - 5000 where he clearly is the best currently, in the last decade and one of the top five all-time.
If Farah has done better than Ingebrigtsen is highly debatable.
2003 (age 20) WC Cross 74th
2005 (age 22) WC Cross 37th
3000m 7:32.62 vs. 7:17.55
Middle distance includes 1500-5k. It also overlaps with distance running, which is 5k up. His achievements and times from 5k up don't put him amongst the great distance runners. My view is that the longer distances aren't his strength, and so far the facts support that.
Army shifting the goalposts to world records in championship distances is funny considering how highly he's talked about the 3000 world record before, how nobody would beat it, and now it's arguably the strongest world record ever set on the track
And yes, 3000 and above is long distance running.
Great runners win championship titles and set records over championship distances. He hasn't done the latter - and has far fewer global championship golds than some other great runners. Excelling at 3k doesn't make him a great distance runner. He is a md runner. He isn't as good over 5k, which is almost double the distance, and has achieved nothing at the longer distances. None of his achievements - impressive as they are, including his 3k record - suggests he will have comparable success at longer distances. Those remain the facts until they change. I doubt they will.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
You shouldn't be making such predictions. You are really bad at them.
None of the predictions that suggest Ingebrigtsen will be the greatest distance runner of all time are close to being fulfilled. He has two outdoor non championship distance wr's - that's it so far, and this from a guy who says he wants them all from the 1500 to the marathon. There are no guarantees in sport and especially longevity. Careers can end at any time. So might his.
As I have said, he is an exceptional md runner and especially from 2k-2 mile. But nothing he has done suggests he is going to become one of the great distance runners, i.e from 5k-10k up. That's a pretty safe prediction.
He already is one of the greatest in the 5000 when he has one Olympic gold, two Worlds golds and 3 European golds at the age of 24, plus faster PB than a runner like Farah. The only question is if he can become one of the greats in the 10k as well.
Army shifting the goalposts to world records in championship distances is funny considering how highly he's talked about the 3000 world record before, how nobody would beat it, and now it's arguably the strongest world record ever set on the track
And yes, 3000 and above is long distance running.
Great runners win championship titles and set records over championship distances. He hasn't done the latter - and has far fewer global championship golds than some other great runners. Excelling at 3k doesn't make him a great distance runner. He is a md runner. He isn't as good over 5k, which is almost double the distance, and has achieved nothing at the longer distances. None of his achievements - impressive as they are, including his 3k record - suggests he will have comparable success at longer distances. Those remain the facts until they change. I doubt they will.
It's irrelevant what you think the definition of long distance running is, because the 3000 is a long distance event and the only event from middle distance and up that has a higher IAAF score is the marathon WR.
The 3000 isn't some record like the 300m or 600m, it's got the same recognition as a IAAF world record like the 1500 or 5000.
Army shifting the goalposts to world records in championship distances is funny considering how highly he's talked about the 3000 world record before, how nobody would beat it, and now it's arguably the strongest world record ever set on the track
And yes, 3000 and above is long distance running.
Great runners win championship titles and set records over championship distances. He hasn't done the latter - and has far fewer global championship golds than some other great runners. Excelling at 3k doesn't make him a great distance runner. He is a md runner. He isn't as good over 5k, which is almost double the distance, and has achieved nothing at the longer distances. None of his achievements - impressive as they are, including his 3k record - suggests he will have comparable success at longer distances. Those remain the facts until they change. I doubt they will.
So Farah is not a great runner for you. I disagree, with the medals he has won and the range from 1500m to the Marathon he has displayed, he IS a great runner. But not in the class of Bekele, Gebrselassie, Kipchoge, El Guerrouj.
Ingebrigtsen already was a great runner at age 23 (and even before). If he already should be ranked ahead of Farah is a point of personal preferences. I would say yes, because of his fantastic records and his many top results besides the global championships. But for sure Farah's 10 Golds are also a very strong argument.
Ingebrigtsen so far has excelled in the range 1500 - 5000 where he clearly is the best currently, in the last decade and one of the top five all-time.
If Farah has done better than Ingebrigtsen is highly debatable.
2003 (age 20) WC Cross 74th
2005 (age 22) WC Cross 37th
3000m 7:32.62 vs. 7:17.55
Middle distance includes 1500-5k. It also overlaps with distance running, which is 5k up. His achievements and times from 5k up don't put him amongst the great distance runners. My view is that the longer distances aren't his strength, and so far the facts support that.
5000m isn't and never was middle distance, it's long distance.
But that's completely irrelevant. You just always refer to middle distance running and to long distance running, that you can downplay his achievements (he isn't one of the all-time great long distance runners - nobody has ever said he already is). But from 1500m to 5000m he without any doubt he is one of the greatest in history. Already at age 24. Will he be successful in the 10000m? We can't know at the moment - but I'm absolutely sure you are not that sure that he won't as you always pretend to be.
Great runners win championship titles and set records over championship distances. He hasn't done the latter - and has far fewer global championship golds than some other great runners. Excelling at 3k doesn't make him a great distance runner. He is a md runner. He isn't as good over 5k, which is almost double the distance, and has achieved nothing at the longer distances. None of his achievements - impressive as they are, including his 3k record - suggests he will have comparable success at longer distances. Those remain the facts until they change. I doubt they will.
So Farah is not a great runner for you. I disagree, with the medals he has won and the range from 1500m to the Marathon he has displayed, he IS a great runner. But not in the class of Bekele, Gebrselassie, Kipchoge, El Guerrouj.
Ingebrigtsen already was a great runner at age 23 (and even before). If he already should be ranked ahead of Farah is a point of personal preferences. I would say yes, because of his fantastic records and his many top results besides the global championships. But for sure Farah's 10 Golds are also a very strong argument.
I put Farah well ahead of Ingebrigtsen so far. His 10 championship golds are in another league from Ingebrigtsen's 4 and Ingebrigtsen's 3 wrs over non-championship distances don't close that gap. If he held the 1500, mile and 5k wrs I might take a different view.
Middle distance includes 1500-5k. It also overlaps with distance running, which is 5k up. His achievements and times from 5k up don't put him amongst the great distance runners. My view is that the longer distances aren't his strength, and so far the facts support that.
5000m isn't and never was middle distance, it's long distance.
But that's completely irrelevant. You just always refer to middle distance running and to long distance running, that you can downplay his achievements (he isn't one of the all-time great long distance runners - nobody has ever said he already is). But from 1500m to 5000m he without any doubt he is one of the greatest in history. Already at age 24. Will he be successful in the 10000m? We can't know at the moment - but I'm absolutely sure you are not that sure that he won't as you always pretend to be.
El G was a md runner. His 5k victory in Athens didn't turn him into a distance runner. Same for Ingebrigtsen. He isn't - yet - a distance runner.
However if you rate his achievements at his best events, the 1500 - 5k, he is nowhere near as good as El G was. He never will be now. He's lost too many championship global finals over the 1500.
Great runners win championship titles and set records over championship distances. He hasn't done the latter - and has far fewer global championship golds than some other great runners. Excelling at 3k doesn't make him a great distance runner. He is a md runner. He isn't as good over 5k, which is almost double the distance, and has achieved nothing at the longer distances. None of his achievements - impressive as they are, including his 3k record - suggests he will have comparable success at longer distances. Those remain the facts until they change. I doubt they will.
It's irrelevant what you think the definition of long distance running is, because the 3000 is a long distance event and the only event from middle distance and up that has a higher IAAF score is the marathon WR.
The 3000 isn't some record like the 300m or 600m, it's got the same recognition as a IAAF world record like the 1500 or 5000.
The non-championship distances do not have the same status as the championship distances - by definition. They aren't run in championships. There are no medals for those distances.
None of the predictions that suggest Ingebrigtsen will be the greatest distance runner of all time are close to being fulfilled. He has two outdoor non championship distance wr's - that's it so far, and this from a guy who says he wants them all from the 1500 to the marathon. There are no guarantees in sport and especially longevity. Careers can end at any time. So might his.
As I have said, he is an exceptional md runner and especially from 2k-2 mile. But nothing he has done suggests he is going to become one of the great distance runners, i.e from 5k-10k up. That's a pretty safe prediction.
He already is one of the greatest in the 5000 when he has one Olympic gold, two Worlds golds and 3 European golds at the age of 24, plus faster PB than a runner like Farah. The only question is if he can become one of the greats in the 10k as well.
I don't think that's a likelihood. I very much doubt it will ever happen. He has showed no ability at the longer distances and he isn't really built to run them.
In the 5k I consider he is still behind Farah, who has more Olympic and WC golds than Ingebrigtsen. Since Farah also never made a wr attempt the small difference between their prs doesn't really count. What does count is that Ingebrigtsen in his own era is nowhere near the wr. I am sceptical he will get close to it let alone beat it. As I've said, his strength appears to be 2k-2miles.
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