No O'Keeffe in marathon?

Running UberNerd wrote:

Bob Sack wrote:

She’s straight up lying at this point to try to make herself look better. “I made it about a mile into the race and we knew there was a definite possibility I would drop out.” I would think you would have known that the moment you were getting gapped by the universality athlete and the motorcade had long since left you behind.

She’s a 2:20 marathoner who started the race, in the back, at 7:30 pace, if that. She got dropped in the first 20 seconds. It’s plain as day that she started the race knowing she would not and could not compete. If she came out and acknowledged an error in judgment in starting the race, I think people would let it go and forgive the mistake. But if she continues to trot out this kind of non-sense justification and dig in while pretending that the whole running world didn’t see what we saw, it’s going to continue to follow her.

sanchobaile wrote:

silly fake rules wrote:

Tell me, WHERE does it say that you must actually start your race at the Olympics to be an Olympian? Who decided this "rule"? Is it in the USATF bylaws? The USOC charter? Or is it some dumb idea that sports commentators made up?

The only -- the ONLY -- two things that matter are MAKING the team, and your RESULTS in the event. Did you make the team but pull your hamstring practicing starts a week out from the meet and can't run? Congrats, you are still an Olympian. Go to the opening ceremony, get your cool gear, hang out at the Team USA House, high five the alternate after their race. Compete at the games, but pull your hamstring 10m into the 100m and can't finish? Still an Olympian.

Neither athlete records a result, which is too bad, but that's part of the sport: people will get hurt, people will DNF / no-height / get DQ'd for a variety of reasons, but the idea that we are going to lord this made-up status over athletes, when it clearly incentivizes them to make terrible decisions, is stupid beyond belief.

This should be in all caps, bold font at the top of the athlete agreement: "USATF and USOC considers an athlete to be an OLYMPIAN, with all the associated rights and privileges, upon qualifying for the US Olympic Team."

I don't disagree with this, but a counterpoint: Staying injury free is part of making the team. Staying injury free to make it to the start line of the Olympics is part of becoming an Olympian.

badform wrote:

la cringe wrote:

Agreed, and while I don't know if/how this could be done practically since the bonuses are part of a private contract, it should be mandated that any financial incentives tied to being an Olympian are considered to have been earned, and thus must be paid to, anyone who would have run if healthy (i.e., whoever the original three are) plus anyone who does run (i.e., a substitute who gets added and competes). You can write in some obvious carveouts, like anyone who gets DQ'd for doping at the Trials or otherwise removed from the roster for rules violations still forfeits their bonus, but anyone who is named to the team and gets hurt should not be forced into the O'Keeffe situation.

Though it does make me wonder, about this whole "are you or are you not an Olympian" question, if you're there in a team sport but don't get in a game, are you an Olympian? Doesn't this whole issue get to the point of absurdity when you consider various scenarios, like a backup goalie on the winning soccer team who never plays but does get handed a gold medal at the end -- is he an Olympian or not? If not, how did a non-Olympian get a gold medal?!

So apparently at the Oympics, the gymnastics alternate does not get a medal, though they do at the World Championships. But I would assume the bench players on the basketball team get one, even if they don't play, because they practice and scrimmage together, and so can be considered as contributing to the team effort, etc.

But it seems dumb to pay runners a bonus for making the Olympic Team and then pay them a bonus again for being present at the start line with shoes and a kit on, like they didn't get a free flight, accommodations, and gear as a part of the deal...?

I think we have to re-look at the definition of what it means to be "an Olympian" and strongly disincentivize putting on a kit when you aren't prepared to compete at a high level. I think things will sort themselves out if you negate the financial issue or the "I'm an OLYMPIAN" nonsense.

LetsRun.com wrote:

O'Keefe's agent has sent us Q&A they did with her where she explains the how things went from her last hard track session to her DNF.

Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2024/08/fiona-oke...

O'KEEFE: The last five weeks or so leading into it, we got in a really solid training block up at Mammoth Lakes. I was logging good marathon mileage, getting in good long runs, getting ready for the hills. I was feeling good about the training and where I was at. Things weren’t perfect, but they never are and it was a good body of work that I was happy with.

When did the issue arise?

O'KEEFE: I did my last real track workout on Friday (August 2) and that was a good workout. I felt strong, no issues, and then on Saturday on my run I started having a little bit of tightness in the left hip. I didn’t think too much of it, but then the next day, Sunday, it was worse during the run. I was supposed to run 90 minutes, I ended up running 80, but I thought: OK, we’re just being smart. But then walking around the rest of the day didn’t feel very good so that’s when it started. We decided to come back to Paris. We were up in Strasbourg. We came back to see the doctors and physio and try to get ready for the race.

What did they tell you?

O'KEEFE: That’s the thing that’s a little confusing. It feels like nobody’s been able to pinpoint it so far. I’ve seen several different people and the Physios seem to mainly think it was an issue of how my hips were aligned and I had an ongoing tight calf so it was possibly compensation because it was on the opposite side. That’s the best explanation I’ve been able to get. Later in the week, I did end up seeing the USATF doctor and getting an MRI done and their read on the MRI was it was clear there was no evidence of muscular damage or anything in the bone. So going off that information, it was like: OK, based on the information we have, there’s not going to be further damage from running on it so we may as well try and see what’s possible.

On those final days, were you able to run?

O'KEEFE: Yeah, I was able to run some. It was definitely not pain-free, but I got a couple more treatments. The last one was Friday morning and I felt quite a bit better walking out of that office so we were thinking: OK, we’ll take the rest of Friday off, see how that treatment settles, hopefully it sets in overnight. Then the next day we’ll run and hopefully we’re good to go. So I did run Saturday morning, just a couple of miles and it wasn’t very good, honestly. But the deadline to declare or not for the race was Friday evening. The deadline had passed and it would have been too late to sub in an alternate at that stage and I was like: OK, if this is a nerve or something, maybe it’ll respond and I’ll wake up on race morning and it’ll settle down a little way into the race or maybe I’ll wake up and it’ll feel different. I didn’t want to have that regret of not having tried and not having given myself a chance.

The morning of the race and in the race itself, what were you feeling?

O'KEEFE: It was really painful. It felt like my body wouldn’t let me run the way I needed to from the get-go. I did a short warm-up and I didn’t feel like there was much point in continuing on if I wasn’t able to compete effectively. I think I made it about a mile into the race and we knew it was definitely possible I would drop out, I thought I’d do it a little later on if so, but it was trying to make a smart call for the day and for the upcoming months.

What’s your next step from here?

O'KEEFE: I need to figure out what exactly is going on with my body because I feel like I don’t have the answers. I need to know what the best treatment approach is. I was going to take time off now anyway with it being after a marathon, so it’s a good time to reset and start assessing how I can train better in the future so I can get to the start line fully healthy and ready to go.

runner5k wrote:

badform wrote:

So apparently at the Oympics, the gymnastics alternate does not get a medal, though they do at the World Championships. But I would assume the bench players on the basketball team get one, even if they don't play, because they practice and scrimmage together, and so can be considered as contributing to the team effort, etc.

But it seems dumb to pay runners a bonus for making the Olympic Team and then pay them a bonus again for being present at the start line with shoes and a kit on, like they didn't get a free flight, accommodations, and gear as a part of the deal...?

I think we have to re-look at the definition of what it means to be "an Olympian" and strongly disincentivize putting on a kit when you aren't prepared to compete at a high level. I think things will sort themselves out if you negate the financial issue or the "I'm an OLYMPIAN" nonsense.

Wrong. The entire gymnastic team has multiple photos of all 5 of them with their gold medals and that includes the 5th one who was the alternate

runner5k wrote:

LetsRun.com wrote:

O'Keefe's agent has sent us Q&A they did with her where she explains the how things went from her last hard track session to her DNF.

Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2024/08/fiona-oke...

O'KEEFE: The last five weeks or so leading into it, we got in a really solid training block up at Mammoth Lakes. I was logging good marathon mileage, getting in good long runs, getting ready for the hills. I was feeling good about the training and where I was at. Things weren’t perfect, but they never are and it was a good body of work that I was happy with.

When did the issue arise?

O'KEEFE: I did my last real track workout on Friday (August 2) and that was a good workout. I felt strong, no issues, and then on Saturday on my run I started having a little bit of tightness in the left hip. I didn’t think too much of it, but then the next day, Sunday, it was worse during the run. I was supposed to run 90 minutes, I ended up running 80, but I thought: OK, we’re just being smart. But then walking around the rest of the day didn’t feel very good so that’s when it started. We decided to come back to Paris. We were up in Strasbourg. We came back to see the doctors and physio and try to get ready for the race.

What did they tell you?

O'KEEFE: That’s the thing that’s a little confusing. It feels like nobody’s been able to pinpoint it so far. I’ve seen several different people and the Physios seem to mainly think it was an issue of how my hips were aligned and I had an ongoing tight calf so it was possibly compensation because it was on the opposite side. That’s the best explanation I’ve been able to get. Later in the week, I did end up seeing the USATF doctor and getting an MRI done and their read on the MRI was it was clear there was no evidence of muscular damage or anything in the bone. So going off that information, it was like: OK, based on the information we have, there’s not going to be further damage from running on it so we may as well try and see what’s possible.

On those final days, were you able to run?

O'KEEFE: Yeah, I was able to run some. It was definitely not pain-free, but I got a couple more treatments. The last one was Friday morning and I felt quite a bit better walking out of that office so we were thinking: OK, we’ll take the rest of Friday off, see how that treatment settles, hopefully it sets in overnight. Then the next day we’ll run and hopefully we’re good to go. So I did run Saturday morning, just a couple of miles and it wasn’t very good, honestly. But the deadline to declare or not for the race was Friday evening. The deadline had passed and it would have been too late to sub in an alternate at that stage and I was like: OK, if this is a nerve or something, maybe it’ll respond and I’ll wake up on race morning and it’ll settle down a little way into the race or maybe I’ll wake up and it’ll feel different. I didn’t want to have that regret of not having tried and not having given myself a chance.

The morning of the race and in the race itself, what were you feeling?

O'KEEFE: It was really painful. It felt like my body wouldn’t let me run the way I needed to from the get-go. I did a short warm-up and I didn’t feel like there was much point in continuing on if I wasn’t able to compete effectively. I think I made it about a mile into the race and we knew it was definitely possible I would drop out, I thought I’d do it a little later on if so, but it was trying to make a smart call for the day and for the upcoming months.

What’s your next step from here?

O'KEEFE: I need to figure out what exactly is going on with my body because I feel like I don’t have the answers. I need to know what the best treatment approach is. I was going to take time off now anyway with it being after a marathon, so it’s a good time to reset and start assessing how I can train better in the future so I can get to the start line fully healthy and ready to go.

This makes her look worse! She knew the decision had to be made Friday evening and rested friday and did the test run saturday knowing it was too late so even if it was bad it was too late. That run should have happened Friday before the final decision needed to be made.

runner5k wrote:

LetsRun.com wrote:

O'Keefe's agent has sent us Q&A they did with her where she explains the how things went from her last hard track session to her DNF.

Link:www.letsrun.com/news/2024/08/fiona-oke...

O'KEEFE: The last five weeks or so leading into it, we got in a really solid training block up at Mammoth Lakes. I was logging good marathon mileage, getting in good long runs, getting ready for the hills. I was feeling good about the training and where I was at. Things weren’t perfect, but they never are and it was a good body of work that I was happy with.

When did the issue arise?

O'KEEFE: I did my last real track workout on Friday (August 2) and that was a good workout. I felt strong, no issues, and then on Saturday on my run I started having a little bit of tightness in the left hip. I didn’t think too much of it, but then the next day, Sunday, it was worse during the run. I was supposed to run 90 minutes, I ended up running 80, but I thought: OK, we’re just being smart. But then walking around the rest of the day didn’t feel very good so that’s when it started. We decided to come back to Paris. We were up in Strasbourg. We came back to see the doctors and physio and try to get ready for the race.

What did they tell you?

O'KEEFE: That’s the thing that’s a little confusing. It feels like nobody’s been able to pinpoint it so far. I’ve seen several different people and the Physios seem to mainly think it was an issue of how my hips were aligned and I had an ongoing tight calf so it was possibly compensation because it was on the opposite side. That’s the best explanation I’ve been able to get. Later in the week, I did end up seeing the USATF doctor and getting an MRI done and their read on the MRI was it was clear there was no evidence of muscular damage or anything in the bone. So going off that information, it was like: OK, based on the information we have, there’s not going to be further damage from running on it so we may as well try and see what’s possible.

On those final days, were you able to run?

O'KEEFE: Yeah, I was able to run some. It was definitely not pain-free, but I got a couple more treatments. The last one was Friday morning and I felt quite a bit better walking out of that office so we were thinking: OK, we’ll take the rest of Friday off, see how that treatment settles, hopefully it sets in overnight. Then the next day we’ll run and hopefully we’re good to go. So I did run Saturday morning, just a couple of miles and it wasn’t very good, honestly. But the deadline to declare or not for the race was Friday evening. The deadline had passed and it would have been too late to sub in an alternate at that stage and I was like: OK, if this is a nerve or something, maybe it’ll respond and I’ll wake up on race morning and it’ll settle down a little way into the race or maybe I’ll wake up and it’ll feel different. I didn’t want to have that regret of not having tried and not having given myself a chance.

The morning of the race and in the race itself, what were you feeling?

O'KEEFE: It was really painful. It felt like my body wouldn’t let me run the way I needed to from the get-go. I did a short warm-up and I didn’t feel like there was much point in continuing on if I wasn’t able to compete effectively. I think I made it about a mile into the race and we knew it was definitely possible I would drop out, I thought I’d do it a little later on if so, but it was trying to make a smart call for the day and for the upcoming months.

What’s your next step from here?

O'KEEFE: I need to figure out what exactly is going on with my body because I feel like I don’t have the answers. I need to know what the best treatment approach is. I was going to take time off now anyway with it being after a marathon, so it’s a good time to reset and start assessing how I can train better in the future so I can get to the start line fully healthy and ready to go.

This makes her look worse! She knew the decision had to be made Friday evening and rested friday and did the test run saturday knowing it was too late so even if it was bad it was too late. That run should have happened Friday before the final decision needed to be made.

Running UberNerd wrote:

Bob Sack wrote:

She’s straight up lying at this point to try to make herself look better. “I made it about a mile into the race and we knew there was a definite possibility I would drop out.” I would think you would have known that the moment you were getting gapped by the universality athlete and the motorcade had long since left you behind.

She’s a 2:20 marathoner who started the race, in the back, at 7:30 pace, if that. She got dropped in the first 20 seconds. It’s plain as day that she started the race knowing she would not and could not compete. If she came out and acknowledged an error in judgment in starting the race, I think people would let it go and forgive the mistake. But if she continues to trot out this kind of non-sense justification and dig in while pretending that the whole running world didn’t see what we saw, it’s going to continue to follow her.