El G has a very strong claim to be 1500 GOAT, with Rudisha an even stronger claim for 800 Goat, but neither would be in the top 10 of greatest 'middle distance' athletes because neither have anything to offer in the 2nd distance (El G at 800, Rudisha at 1500).
You wrote an encyclopedia just to justify points which are not worth.
I give a simple answer and from the official Worlds Athletics:
Then to disappoint you more. Your lord Coe got only a Gold olympic medal in a single distance (one in 1980/1984 boycotted games with in 1984 the absence of the performer of the year ... yeah I go to detail like what you do usually), then you have El G who have two Olympic Golds medals in two different middle distances.
Excellent point. Facts are an inconvenience to some of these guys.
I was replying to L'Innoculateur's claim that El G did not compete in boycotted Olympics. Remind me what El G won in the 800m?
The Olympics where El G competed were not boykottet, that's right. And there were not just five countries competing, also those five you listed were ahead of the rest at the top.
Everybody knows that El G has won nothing in the 800m. Is it new for you?
I was replying to L'Innoculateur's claim that El G did not compete in boycotted Olympics. Remind me what El G won in the 800m?
The Olympics where El G competed were not boykottet, that's right. And there were not just five countries competing, also those five you listed were ahead of the rest at the top.
Everybody knows that El G has won nothing in the 800m. Is it new for you?
Again, in the full throttle EPO era, only 4 or 5 countries were competing at the very top at 1500m and 5000m, for obvious reasons. Now that there is reasonably decent testing in those countries they are fear less dominant (Kenya) or have fallen off the map completely (Morocco, Algeria), and you have Brits, Norwegians, Australians.
Between 1992, which is commonly understood to be the first year when the medal winners were on EPO, and 2005 when EPO testing was properly introduced, the top 33 fastest 1500m guys were all North African or East African born, with the exception of Ivan Hesko of the Ukraine (another of the handful of countries on the Likely Doping list. The top 27 times were from 3 countries - Morocco, Kenya, and Algeria.
In contrast, in the last 4 seasons, you have among the top 33 fastest 1500m guys, Brits (5), Australians (2), Norwegians (2), a Pole, a Frenchman, a Ugandan, an American.
So in the 13 years of the full throttle EPO era you had zero non African athletes in the top 33. In the last 4 years, you have 12 from 6 different countries.
And btw, the Olympics in 80 and 84 were boycotted, but we all know that Coe was the best in the world in those years (with Ovett in 80 and Cram in 84). We know with absolute certainity, that if there had been proper EPO testing introduced in 1992 and the ABP soon after, that the history of the 1500m would be totally different, and for sure would not be dominated by Morrocco, Algeria, and Kenya.
Performances gain from EPO is a myth. You need to provide scientific scientific supporting documents. I give you another subject to study: why no Brit run 1:42 in 800m since 1990?
(Peter Elliot run almost 1:43 in 1990)
What kind of "condiments" you were using at that time?
The Olympics where El G competed were not boykottet, that's right. And there were not just five countries competing, also those five you listed were ahead of the rest at the top.
Everybody knows that El G has won nothing in the 800m. Is it new for you?
Again, in the full throttle EPO era, only 4 or 5 countries were competing at the very top at 1500m and 5000m, for obvious reasons. Now that there is reasonably decent testing in those countries they are fear less dominant (Kenya) or have fallen off the map completely (Morocco, Algeria), and you have Brits, Norwegians, Australians.
In 2022
14 of the 20 fastest over 800m are of East or North African origin,
15 of the 17 fastest over 5000m are of East or Central African origin,
17 of the 20 fastest over 10000m are of East or Central African origin,
77 of the top 80 fastest in the marathon are of East, Central or North African origin,
15 of the 19 fastest in the Steeple are of East or North African origin.
This wasn't the case for Coe - held every 4 years and only in 2nd half of his career. They also didn't occur during Snell's career, who is clearly the second best middle distance runner of all time. Far and away the most significant criteria for evaluating all time lists are Olympic medals and world records, as they are a constant throughout history. Then comes longevity, impact and other honours won.
El G has a very strong claim to be 1500 GOAT, with Rudisha an even stronger claim for 800 Goat, but neither would be in the top 10 of greatest 'middle distance' athletes because neither have anything to offer in the 2nd distance (El G at 800, Rudisha at 1500).
It's just a bit tiresome at this point. Nobody disagrees that the Olympics are a great measure of the career, but your dismissiveness of World Champs is completely self-serving. Coe had two opportunities to win World Titles in 1983 and 1987 that were completely legitimate. I'm guessing 1981 marked the end of the first half of his career to you (a 3-year half of a career is curious) because in 1982 due to health (again this matters) he couldn't win European Gold. Most of this debate has been on 800m running, and then some has been on championship performances and records. Coe had a great career but to act like his lack of a global 800m title doesn't hinder his legacy just because he didn't have Worlds in 1979 and 1981 is misguided. I don't think anyone rationally thinks 1985 was some "missed opportunity" to beat Cruz either. So, yes Coe was unfortunate to have two prime years without Worlds, but his main issues were injuries/illnesses) (1982-1983) and his lack of execution in championship 800m races in 1980 and 1984.
Sorry for beeing out of topic in thread No. 1769 going into a completely wrong (Coe-) direction not intented by the OP.
I call you to be a liar Deano, because you lie. You understand? I'm pretty sure you said Coe had to face all the best (the best - what would this mean at all?) in the 1980 and 1984 1500m Olympics. You know it's complete nonsense, you write it, you are a liar. And no, there is no room for some different opinion about the subject. Within the same month of the 80 final two athletes not allowed to compete in Moscow because of the boykott run under the existing world record. From the 10 fastest over 1500m in 1980 the nos 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10 were not in Moscow . And if you have "sympathy" for the decision of some specific runner is so irrelevant for this question. No, not any of the best of 84 competed in LA over the distance. The seasons fastest over both 1500 and Mile who is also known for his exceptional finishing qualities was not there. Because he had to choose between the 1500 and the 5000 which were held on the same day.
To ignore three world outdoor titles while comparing Kipketer to Coe is hardly to beat in his pure stupidity (even when Coe would have had not a single world champs during his career - he has had two). If you don't see this yourself nothing will - many have tried.
You recently questioned if Elliott is a 1:42 800 runner (1:42.97 PB). Well, the question for sure itself is pure nonsense and worth not a single sentence. But when Coe runs 3:31.95 for sure it's just a 3:31. Letsrun, TAFN, YouTube are full of such Deano bonmonts.
You contacted me some months ago Deano - I give you the feedback you deserve.
It's good to see you get more and more critical responeses in this forum from many posters
Just like it's speculation that Kipketer would have won in Atlanta.
Racing the 800m with no official pacemaker at 11 pm on a sh tty track is not perfect conditions. Kipketer was only running 1:42/3 when he didn't have perfect conditions.
Have you run on the track, Coevett? And took his mom care he goes to bed early every night? What was bad on the pace for the first 450m?
So Coe was much better over 800m than Kipketer, correct Coevett?
Good to have unbiased posters...
I've never been an elite track runner, as I'm sure you haven't either, but I'm equally sure that racing at 11 pm after delays, in what he intended to be a tune up race for a serious attempt at the WR a week later, isn't 'perfect conditions'.
In any case, Seb Coe himself said that, and I'm sure you'll agree that Coe has raced on a track, including as it happens on that very same track, on that very same night he broke the world record, remarkably enough.
Again, in the full throttle EPO era, only 4 or 5 countries were competing at the very top at 1500m and 5000m, for obvious reasons. Now that there is reasonably decent testing in those countries they are fear less dominant (Kenya) or have fallen off the map completely (Morocco, Algeria), and you have Brits, Norwegians, Australians.
4 Algerians in the top 20 800m (!!) and 3 under 8:30 in the steeple.
3 Moroccans under 13:18 in the 5000m and 5 under 3:36.7 in the 1500 and 4 under 8:27 in the steeple incl. the fastest.
That's not as good as two decades ago, but also not "fallen off the map completely".
So in the 13 years of the full throttle EPO era you had zero non African athletes in the top 33. In the last 4 years, you have 12 from 6 different countries.
Zero? Really?
Fermin Cacho, ESP
Rui Silva, POR
Ivan Heshko, UKR
Mehdi Baala, FRA
Reyes Estevez, ESP
Isaac Viciosa, ESP
Jose Redolat, ESP
Maybe I'm missing some, but seven is more than zero.
Again, in the full throttle EPO era, only 4 or 5 countries were competing at the very top at 1500m and 5000m, for obvious reasons. Now that there is reasonably decent testing in those countries they are fear less dominant (Kenya) or have fallen off the map completely (Morocco, Algeria), and you have Brits, Norwegians, Australians.
4 Algerians in the top 20 800m (!!) and 3 under 8:30 in the steeple.
3 Moroccans under 13:18 in the 5000m and 5 under 3:36.7 in the 1500 and 4 under 8:27 in the steeple incl. the fastest.
That's not as good as two decades ago, but also not "fallen off the map completely".
Yes, there has been a suspicious explosion in Algerian talent in the 800m this season. Lets see how that holds up. I was pointing to 1500/5000 and gave stats for the last 4 seasons at 1500. For 2019-2022, the highest Algerian is 16th, and there are 2 Algerians in the top 30 (16 and 30) compared to 4 Brits (and Brits are 31 and 32), 4 Americans, and 2 Poles. In the 1500m there are 2 Moroccans (24 and 28) and Makhloufi (20) who has effectively been busted and retired.
Even if it's at the third degree I could say that Ingebrigsten is idolizing Aouita.
I didn't heard anyone idolizing Coe except the Brit themselves. There was always something fishy about him. While there was only one weakness to Aouita, he didn't have a very big brain. He took some choices/tactics in carrer was which were not the best decisions.
Even if it's at the third degree I could say that Ingebrigsten is idolizing Aouita.
I didn't heard anyone idolizing Coe except the Brit themselves. There was always something fishy about him. While there was only one weakness to Aouita, he didn't have a very big brain. He took some choices/tactics in carrer was which were not the best decisions.
