Jake Krolick runs 2:19:00.14 at Houston this weekend. USATF grants him entry into the trials. Hours later he’s denied.

The women’s standard is a joke anyways, so why not make a joke of the rules for them

I feel bad for the guy but he missed it with both his chip and bib time. Looking at his splits, he went out pretty fast and should have followed the 2:19 pack. If so, he probably wouldn't be in this situation.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him get in, though. By saying he's unsure if he will let it go but making a big post about it, he's hoping to stir up an emotional response and get in through the power of the people/publicity.

So after looking at the finish line video this is what I see.

You can find the finish video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBqWjO2aZS0&t=1h20m16s

You can see Robert Murphy come into full daylight out of the shadow at about 2:18:50 clock time. Jacob Crolick comes out the shadow just 1 second later at 2:18:51 on the clock. I can’t tell is Robert passed Jacob around the turn but Robert was moving faster as they come to the home stretch. When the clock reads 2:18:56-7 Jackb notices Robert and picks up the pace to stay on him. Robert the checks his watch and probably notices his chip time would be faster than 2:19, assuming he started his watch when he crossed the starting line, and gives it everything he has. Jacob however was probably just looking at the clock and starting slowing down when the clock reads 2:19:02. His body language changes at that time and jogs it in to the finish thinking he just missed the cutoff. If he would have checked his watch, assuminghe started it on time, he would have seen he was close and shouldn’t have relied on the clock. That’s also assuming he knew about the chip time getting you in if you were close. I think he had it in him had he continued running through the line and just chased Robert down the home straight.

this reinforces what i was saying earlier: he had 26.2 to make up 1 sec. he slowed down significantly in the last 2mi, and then here is barely off due to a weak finish.

unfortunate that he missed it so narrowly, and its a shame they told him he was in when he wasn't, but usatf still has the right to refuse him in this case

Maybe he should have made a better connection with the race director. Anyone remember this?

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=260724#260724

There should never be any rounding up on a time to determine a qualifier. 2:19:00.14 is not 2:19:00.00 nor is it 2:19:01.

USATF's should not have any wiggle room with their entry standards. But they clearly do:

5. "Gun" time is the only acceptable method of timing. Chip/net times cannot be used for qualifying. Consideration may be given to "chip/tag" times for competitors with "gun" times extremely close to the above qualifying standards.

This is where I take issue with this. In their response they acknowledge that they are looking at the chip time which would indicate that they feel he was really close to the standard. Then they disqualify him based on the time being rounded up.

Really muddy USATF!! This problem was caused by them long before he ran across the finish line. Be clear with your rules USATF for the next one.

In the meantime let him in! This is your error!

We should get an on-line petition going just to thumb this to them.

If Kara can get lost because she was competing against runners wearing unknown, advantageous shoes, then sorry Jake, you were a few tenths too late.

Glad to see a lot of support for Jake. I have met him numerous times and he is a class act. While I'm indifferent to whether he should be allowed to compete, I cannot justify the fact he was told that he was in and then USATF denied him later especially since they did this for some women. Despicable

The obsession of American hobby runners with the OLYMPIC Trials is just a never ending hunt for bizarre Amateur glory. Can't even look at any running related things anymore without OTQ being in your face everywhere. Its just boring and quite frankly, people are so damn vain and the only reason they try so hard to qualify is then they can mention something that says olympic and their name in the same sentence. Its nauseating.

If the timer had a camera across the finish line AND it was time synced to the timing box this might work. I would bet most races do not have this. In addition most chips are on the bib anyhow and not the shoe. One thing that is a fair question AND would make a difference is to ask the timer if the Start line boxes and Finish line boxes were properly synced before the race. If two boxes have not been synced together for a decent amount of time (say weeks or months) their oscillators that keep time could have drifted apart by enough to be a problem. I would bet most good timers always do this, but it is possible that this step was skipped which could generate errors in the tenths of second range.

Big deal, a waste of an airline ticket. Let’s get real here, he doesn’t stand a chance with that time, which probably was his max effort just to try to qualify with such short turn around between both races, then go to the trials and run 2:2xx . The OTC shouldn’t even exist, they allowed it this year because a bunch of cry baby’s that don’t stand a chance of making the mark of 2:11xx went crying to USATF and IAAF (now WA). As long as we keep glorifying mediocrity we won’t excel in the marathon.

runningchick wrote:

The obsession of American hobby runners with the OLYMPIC Trials is just a never ending hunt for bizarre Amateur glory. Can't even look at any running related things anymore without OTQ being in your face everywhere. Its just boring and quite frankly, people are so damn vain and the only reason they try so hard to qualify is then they can mention something that says olympic and their name in the same sentence. Its nauseating.

Different things motivate different people. What's wrong with someone setting a big goal, putting in the work and achieving it?

It's the same as people chasing a BQ or any other goal in life. Nearly everyone needs a carrot to chase and there's nothing wrong with that. And when they do get the carrot, it's not so much the external reward, but the internal satisfaction you get from making sacrifices, putting in a big effort and being successful.

I have two friends who knocked several minutes off their marathon time over the past four years and they both got the Trials Standard. They're both humble people and there was nothing vain in their attempt.

The only thing nauseating is your negativity, which is probably fueled by your insecurity.

Sure. They have a right to refuse him. But why? Just let all the guys that just wanna say they qualified for the OTM that have zero shot at being in the top 50 have their fun. Who cares?

There is a precedent for letting those in that are close.

By the hair of his chinny chin chin wrote:

There is a precedent for letting those in that are close.

But as many have said here already....there IS NOT a precedent for letting those in that are close. The women that have been let in had gun times that were over the standard but their chip times met the standard. This guy missed BOTH the gun time AND chip time.

Here's the difference between the United States and other countries. Firstly, we have 330 million people as well as a competitive university athletic system for xc / track&field. Therefore you have a high number of distance runners finishing school at the age of 22-23 who are really just getting started in the sport, but have shown a level of success and potential. Where does a 22-23 year old 29 minute 10k guy and 34 minute 10k woman go at that point who wants to keep developing to see what they can do at longer distances? What do they shoot for? What is realistic? Hardly anyone is running marathons or even competitive half marathons in college so people have no idea what they can run in those events.

There really is no national development program in the US because USATF has always just relied on the universities to produce national team talent. And because of that there is a large void in progression between people running 1500m -10k races in college and people who have progressed to the point of running international level marathons. And that was basically why the Hanson's entered the picture in the late 90's to try to provide that bridge. The US Trials is unique in that it provides something for most of those people to point towards as the next level past their college career. An example was D2 all-American runner Trent Briney that ran 2:21 to qualify for the 2004 Olympic Trials and then ran 2:12 for 4th place there (not to mention Brian Sell who finished 5th that day after qualifying with a 2:20 and then four years later he made the Olympic Team for 2008). Both of those guys ran for Hanson's.

Sure, people may have different motivations for pursuing a Trials qualifying time and people can argue all day about what those standards should be and why, but the reality is that with the US Olympic Team the qualifying system is supposed to be whoever the top three people are to cross the finish-line on the day make up the team. And due to the nature of the marathon, the development process, etc. there are a lot of people out there that could nail it down on the day and that has been shown over and over and over. And that's why the Olympic Trials exists because it's objective. The alternative is to not have a Trials race and leave the selection of the team up a subjective committee and in the USA that goes against the grain of earning your opportunity.

Keep the subjective politics out of it, set a standard using common sense, apply rules using common sense, when in doubt side with the athlete and give people a bib number and just go compete. No one is getting a free pass who is competing at that level, it's hard work any way you cut it., you can't fake a marathon, you don't get lucky and run far and fast. To grill someone over something controversial like a fraction of a second of their chip / gun time, etc. in a marathon seems pointless unless you have an axe to grind. And to anyone out there that believes every marathon on the planet is exactly 26 miles, 385 yards I hate to disappoint you. Unless you are running it on a 400m flat track then you can't know without a shadow of a doubt how EXACT a course is when it is stretched over city streets for that length. Who knows maybe Krolick actually ran 2:18:50 or maybe be ran 2:19:10 for the exact distance. Either way it was a pretty good run.

runningchick wrote:

The obsession of American hobby runners with the OLYMPIC Trials is just a never ending hunt for bizarre Amateur glory. Can't even look at any running related things anymore without OTQ being in your face everywhere. Its just boring and quite frankly, people are so damn vain and the only reason they try so hard to qualify is then they can mention something that says olympic and their name in the same sentence. Its nauseating.

Maybe your goals are nauseating?

We're obsessing because a guy who ran 2:19 could not get into the trails...maybe he should aim higher. American marathoners in general should aim higher. The Africans set the bar. Maybe when Jake runs sub 2:07 i might Give AF.

fair question wrote:

By the hair of his chinny chin chin wrote:

There is a precedent for letting those in that are close.

But as many have said here already....there IS NOT a precedent for letting those in that are close. The women that have been let in had gun times that were over the standard but their chip times met the standard. This guy missed BOTH the gun time AND chip time.

Precedent in previous trials people have been let in. Both genders.