Moderation question: When if ever should we allow the discussion of someone else's body/appearance on LetsRun?

Here is the problem. The athletes themselves contribute to the confusion. Take Karissa's latest IG post for example. She is meeting her contractual obligation by announcing the release of the Nike React Infinity shoe, yet no where in the picture do we see the shoe. It's a very flattering picture of her and what is one to do? What is the desired response suppose to be? What is the purpose of posting that picture if not for people to comment on it?

As a side note, she looks f****** amazing. Can I say that? If I thought she looked like crap, would that be OK?

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7JMUAKAZip/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I appreciate you're being thoughtful about it, but I think you're overthinking it. Update and three stress fractures is fine. Mentioning weight is not. Period. Not for HS and college athletes. Those who understand the sport will make the connection, but it doesn't need to be discussed on this board and preserved on the internet forever.

"Many Duke women seem unhealthy.... Well, we know Jane Smith has had three stress fractures". Not allowed. Obviously linking the two even if it's not explicitly stated, and even if it's genuinely speculative.

Again, no names for HS or college athletes in discussions about weight!

David S wrote:

I still struggle with this because some discussions that name college athletes are fine. There might be a thread that goes "Is So-and-so update?" "Oh, they had three stress fractures and was red-shirted the past two years." Is that out of line? But then to speculate that it might be caused by weight or eating issues is out of line? Or is it only a problem if you say you can see lanugo?Or what if you go the other way, "Many Duke/UW women seem to be at unhealthy weights." "Well we know Person A had three stress fractures since she moved there."I don't really get how those kinds of conversations would work.

Weight of high school kids off limits , whether high school kids will burn out on limits . Discussion of the weight of adults on limits . Discussion of the personal appearance of adults off limits . My recollection was that O’Connor was mostly bothered by comments that she looked very plain .

What about going the other way: "banning" people likely to be offended from reading such talk. Of course, I don't really mean "banning," but "warning." Perhaps an icon that would appear on a thread title if a moderator feels a thread has the potential to offend. That way, you don't have to ban the content, but you can offer some protection to those who might be hurt by it.

Suzy Favor Hamilton

Interesting point. I wouldn't think much of anyone saying Rudisha is fat and needs to lose weight.

Say it was Dibaba as well. I wouldn't think much of it either. Once it becomes a US runner people on here might actually know to it becomes an issue. Just a bit more personal then.

Suburban Punk wrote:

People who have had a documented history of eating disorders should be off limits.

This. Let me put a slightly finer point on it.

Discussing cases that are known to be particularly sensitive should be heavily moderated, with attention given to whether the post adds new information to the discussion.

It's not that Mary Cain's weight should never be discussed, but we all know that she's had an eating disorder in her past, is heavier than she used to be, and is not close to her old times. We suspect that she might be particularly vulnerable because of this history, and the topic has been well-covered already. The vast majority of posts about Cain's weight do not add anything to the discussion that wasn't already there. So delete them. If a post (respectfully) gives new information or a new perspective, by all means leave it up.

greenliner wrote:

Fatg shaming is a regular occurrence on this site.

Discussions of female runner bodies is a regular occurrence on this site.

Discussions of high-school runner bodies is a regular occurrence on this site.

This thread will lead to no change whatsoever. And rojo, the SJW comment was unnecessary.

Can you cite examples? I'm pretty sure in the abstract I don't want a lotmof what you are saying happening. Please cite any example of this and we can moderate.

We suspect that she might be particularly vulnerable because of this history, and the topic has been well-covered already. The vast majority of posts about Cain's weight do not add anything to the discussion that wasn't already there. So delete them. If a post (respectfully) gives new information or a new perspective, by all means leave it up.

Supposedly Cain on the Citius mag podcast talks about saying she was fat in photos.

Maybe we have a higher standard for weight stuff but if we have a standard for content on the site of 'having to determing if something adds something new to a discussion' then we won't have any discussion.

I think the key is for stuff to be done respectfully.

And I keep coming back to the close knit nature of the running word makes everything different .

I could care less if people say Prince Harry looks like shit or Megan Markle is an ass. I can't believe they are withdrawing from Royal life because supposedly they don't like what is being said about them. That's not going to change if they are celebreties but my main thinking is just don't read it. The more prominent someone is the more discussion I think is going to be expected to come with the territory but their story if true shows even the biggest celebs still care.

wejo wrote:

greenliner wrote:Fatg shaming is a regular occurrence on this site. Discussions of female runner bodies is a regular occurrence on this site. Discussions of high-school runner bodies is a regular occurrence on this site.This thread will lead to no change whatsoever. And rojo, the SJW comment was unnecessary.

Can you cite examples? I'm pretty sure in the abstract I don't want a lotmof what you are saying happening. Please cite any example of this and we can moderate.

The only instance I can recall of weight or appearance being mentioned in a shaming way is with Josh Cox. Maybe Shaq or Charles Barkley.

My impression is weight is a customary subject, but only in context of health or performance and not for the object of aspersion. Many have been criticized for being too skinny as well.

mcvred wrote:

the way some posters (especially unregistered ones) have discussed the bodies and behavior (esp in interviews) of underage, namely high school girls, has completely crossed a line on a number of occasions and is part of why the forum is seen How it is

Maybe we just need to really encourage people to report those posts or we have our mods read more of the high school threads because that type of stuff I don't want but I don't read a lot of high school stuff.

A high school kids is just more vulnerable.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me clearly isn't true even for older more prominent athletes as evidenced by the Leah O'Connor thing.

Free speech tends to find a way. Already I think the underlying theme is weight when people comment on someone's "fitness."

Euphemisms are useful in society. They can appease those who need an out to save face and those who have something to say. "Excuse me I have to go powder my nose and not take a massive s***."

Comedy thread.

As if a discussion on a female athlete's weight is ever going to be anything other than unpleasant and generally abusive on this forum.

There are simply too many people without the emotional maturity to discuss such an issue, and then the same posters start crying when they get deleted or called out.

In short, go for your life, you're not going to change the forum by making rules about stuff like this. It'll still happen.

Why is everyone so PC?

I think this is exactly the point. What an althete wears or does not wear is not an implicit invitation or permission to talk about their body, especially in an anonymous, public forum like this. This is the same kind of logic as when you say someone was asking to be sexually assaulted because they were dressed in a particular way.

Bun Huggers wrote:

Guy runners wear 2 inch shorts and females wear bun huggers and sports bras. Seems to be dissociative if you couldn't talk about their bodies. As athletes, you flaunt your body all the time as seen in any race photos. Are we all SJWs now?

Bullet the Blue Sky wrote:

I think this is exactly the point. What an althete wears or does not wear is not an implicit invitation or permission to talk about their body, especially in an anonymous, public forum like this.

This is the same kind of logic as when you say someone was asking to be sexually assaulted because they were dressed in a particular way.

Did you really just create such a stupid strawman? By your logic, I would be raping you just by talking about how fat you are. You seem to be carrying an extra couple of spare tires. Did what I said just rape you???

Just because lots of people do it doesn't make it right.

Seyta wrote:

Again, I posted this on the other threads, but in every other sport, coaches rip apart, scream at, and insult athletes in front of a live audience of thousands, and a televised audience of possibly millions. In fact, some coaches even get into physical altercations with athletes from opposing teams, or even their own teams.

I'm replying, as a longtime forum participant, having only read your opening post.

I'm amazed, frankly, that anybody is worried about this issue. I believe in more freedom of speech rather than less. I don't believe that openly racist speech should be allowed to stand--but of course it isn't, because one can always report such a post or thread. And I've done that a handful of times.

But bodies? That's our stock in trade as competitive distance runners. I'm one of the more weight-conscious people I know. I'm three to five pounds overweight--and nobody except a runner would know or think that, but it obsesses me. In this respect I'm so.....gay? Such a girl?

No. I'm a runner. Straight, white, male, ageing, and obsessed in a low-key, daily-weigh-in sort of way.

I know I'm not the only one. I know that there are many of us here. Younger as well as older. But we're all watching that scale, those abs or not-quite-abs. E Pluribus Runnerdom.

And so we project. We snicker. We demean, snidely. But really, we're worried about our own belly-fat. You know I'm speaking truth.

I don't know if women and trans people do this, but I suspect they do. I suspect that they obsess, too, at least in certain prickly moods. We're cis-gendeed fatties!

I think that the LR forum should maintain the space for those of us who obsess about that last pound or two or five or ten or fifteen or forty or sixty.

Of course I salute those big, fat....um, Clydesdale-esque runners, of whatever sex, race, region, gender, or (Bubba) accent, who never obsess. God I wish I could be like that.

[quote]The Floyd wrote:

I appreciate you're being thoughtful about it, but I think you're overthinking it. Update and three stress fractures is fine. Mentioning weight is not. Period. Not for HS and college athletes. Those who understand the sport will make the connection, but it doesn't need to be discussed on this board and preserved on the internet forever.

"Many Duke women seem unhealthy.... Well, we know Jane Smith has had three stress fractures". Not allowed. Obviously linking the two even if it's not explicitly stated, and even if it's genuinely speculative.

Again, no names for HS or college athletes in discussions about weight!

[quote]David S wrote:

"Mentioning weight is not. Period."

Are you serious?

I'm fine with bracketing HS athletes. Sure. They're just kids.

Everybody else: sure. Absolutely. No athlete is required to read what we write here. We're just talking.

People here are much too touchy. Ideally, the LR forum would be a place where many kinds of conversations could take place. I don't mind women, young and old, having threads where they mock we men and our foibles. And vice versa.

A week ago I was back home in Rockland County, NY, and I happened to take a walk around a lake that I've long loved and often taken runs around. I'm injured these day, so I took a walk instead of a run. A couple of miles in, I hooked up with a couple of guys who took long walks there every day. They were both a decade older than I am. One was a white American guy. One was most definitely not a white American guy. They were great friends and had known each other for a long time. It was guy talk. They were good guys, but it was raw and they told several jokes of the sort that men tell each other about the category of women known as wives. The non-white non-American guy, my fellow citizen (an immigrant years ago), had been married for a long time and clearly loved his wife. but he told me the following joke.

A Jewish man and his wife were visiting Israel when, in a sudden tragedy, the man's wife dropped dead. He decided to fly her home to New York and have the funeral there--something that would, he found out, cost $20,000.

A local funeral director in Jerusalem said, "What? Are you crazy? I'll put her in the ground here for $2,000. It'll be a fine, beautiful funeral. Israel is the homeland."

"No," the husband said. "I'm taking her home."

"Why?" objected the funeral director. "One TENTH of the price! What's not to like?"

"I know how you work," the bereaved husband said. "Here in the Holy Land, she might stay in the ground one, maybe two days, and then boom! Back in action. I'm not taking any chances."

We need this safe space to tell such jokes. About wives, husbands, bellies.