Is BYU at Risk of Budget Cuts?

runnER/DR wrote:

Please send me your money. wrote:

Even the LDS propaganda machine Deseret News admits that fraud is more rampant in Utah than anywhere else in the US. It is the culture, same as with Nigerian princes.

https://www.deseret.com/2019/4/29/20671965/does-utah-deserve-the-title-fraud-capital-of-the-united-stateshttps://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/utah-white-collar-crime/475896/https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/08/22/Utah-fraud-capital-of-world-experts-say/7607525067200/

So you can't prove fraud within the organization of the church itself so you shift the argument? Nice tactic! Guess I won that one.

Now lets address your next argument. Yes fraud happens with INDIVIDUALS within the LDS community. They are a very tight knit group that places enormous trust in their neighbors. Obviously they place too much trust sometimes because it really leaves them vulnerable to the (very) few bad apples. Anytime you have a trusting, tight knit community you will have higher rates of fraud.

Systemic fraud starting with the very first mormons and deeply ingrained within the culture. There is no separation of secular, church and cultural within the mormon population. The very idea of individualism in the LDS community is nonexistent. Those very few bad apples that you reference are actually a huge number of bad apples, and is thus why Utah has by far the highest rate of fraud in the world. Fraud is condoned, encouraged and perpetrated by the leaders of the LDS. It is not up to us to prove the fraud, that is the the job of the Department of Justice, which has been investigating the LDS ongoing fraud for a long time. Maybe if they can grow a pair and defy the LDS Utah senators and representatives who vigorously try to protect the fraud, we can finally get some real justice and shut this ponzi scheme down.

runnER/DR wrote:

The LDS church pays taxes on it's for profit ventures. This is not news. At all. You people are so naive to that church and how it operates. There is nothing new here.

They pay taxes. You can disagree on how they use their rainy day funds. But a church needs a sustainable long term financial plan for long term stability. Tons of churches went under during the great recession because they did not have sufficient rainy day investments. You can argue this church has gone too far in its investments. But it gives it enormous stability over time.

This is all claims without evidence. This is not at all clear.

runnER/DR wrote:

Snow wrote:

They are way more concerned about amassing money than about ministering to souls. Good luck trying to get into a temple without being up to date on your tithes. No matter the circumstances, collecting the cash is the most important thing going on in any LDS meeting. I know this for a fact because I have experienced it first hand for many years.

Nope. Never got that impression at all from any interactions with mormons I've had...which is a lot. I've lived in Utah and AZ my whole life. I've been to their worship services. I've occasionally heard about tithing, but certainly no more than at other church services I've been to. No passing the plate around in their buildings.

They literally haul you into the bishop's office every year to shame you into giving more money. You will be denied sacraments, church membership, entry into the temple. Tithing is by far the most important part of being LDS. Just because

you don't witness what goes on behind the veil doesn't mean it isn't happening. That $100 billion didn't just appear out of thin air, it came from the members whose tithing obligation far exceeds their obligation to feed their families.

That is a BOLD claim to say the US department of justice has been investigating the church for a long time. This is pure hearsay as far as I'm concerned. Ive never seen anything from any reliable, verifiable source.

I'm sure there have been some brief investigations that obviously went nowhere. There has never ever been even the slightest public announcement from the department of justice about ongoing investigation into the LDS church. This is honestly borderline libel...its certainty reckless use of your uniformed opinion.

I'm sure you heard from someone somewhere about some secondary source looking into the church. But to insinuate the church actually has a big time investigation ongoing by the department of justice about impropriety is an ENORMOUS allegation.

Bring ‘em Young wrote:

The mall cost $1.4 billion,

Oh really, if you expand your definition of mall to include office and residential buildings all of which compose the City Creek Center then you may be accurate. But that would detract from the facade you're trying to portray.

Routinely misleading you are. Your sole purpose is to shed a negatively light on the church, in my opinion you don't do a very good job of that as you resort to superficial arguments and stances.

Who are you to say that the investment of the church into downtown Salt Lake City wasn't a wise biblically sound investment. That it didn't help spur economic development and improve the lives of the community? Who are you to say that a billion plus dollars of humanitarian aid given by the church throughout the world over the last 30 years isn't Christ like enough? That the prudence used to identify where, what type, and how much humanitarian aid to send was misguided?

Bring ‘em Young wrote:

If the Mormon Church is forced to pay taxes on its $100 billion investments, is BYU’s cross country budget going to take a hit?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/mormon-church-has-misled-members-on-100-billion-tax-exempt-investment-fund-whistleblower-alleges/2019/12/16/e3619bd2-2004-11ea-86f3-3b5019d451db_story.html

That is about as disingenuous of a topic starter as can be from the forever trash on the Church poster. You don't care anything about the cross country budget so don't even pretend you do. You just look at this as an opportunity to bash the Church.

joseph smith's 27 preteen wives wrote:

The self-proclaimed "prophet" Gordon Hinckley told (lied to) mormon "church" members that their tithes (shakedowns) were never used for investing in private enterprises. Well, he was a liar and I am so very happy that he is now suffering in the eternal fires of HELL.

Judge not!

blamb61 wrote:

joseph smith's 27 preteen wives wrote:

The self-proclaimed "prophet" Gordon Hinckley told (lied to) mormon "church" members that their tithes (shakedowns) were never used for investing in private enterprises. Well, he was a liar and I am so very happy that he is now suffering in the eternal fires of HELL.

Judge not!

It's not for me to judge. Hinckley was judged by God, and found to be an ideal candidate for an everlasting period of torture in the fires of HELL.

joseph smith's 27 preteen wives wrote:

blamb61 wrote:

Judge not!

It's not for me to judge. Hinckley was judged by God, and found to be an ideal candidate for an everlasting period of torture in the fires of HELL.

That one took an unexpected turn! nice troll job.

Snow wrote:

They are way more concerned about amassing money than about ministering to souls. Good luck trying to get into a temple without being up to date on your tithes. No matter the circumstances, collecting the cash is the most important thing going on in any LDS meeting. I know this for a fact because I have experienced it first hand for many years.

Nonsense. I've been a Bishop in the LDS church (still am but not in the calling) and finance clerk and that is not how it works. Why would you want to go to the temple if you don't believe in the religion? There is no plates passed at LDS meetings. It is all given discretely. We pay our tithing on-line so no one ever sees us do that in the general congregation. You are not being truthful!

joseph smith's 27 preteen wives wrote:

It's not for me to judge. Hinckley was judged by God, and found to be an ideal candidate for an everlasting period of torture in the fires of HELL.

Mormons don't believe in hell.

Fraud is not encouraged by church leaders. One of the temple recommend questions to determine worthiness is, "Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?". You are not telling the truth!

Snow wrote:

runnER/DR wrote:

Nope. Never got that impression at all from any interactions with mormons I've had...which is a lot. I've lived in Utah and AZ my whole life. I've been to their worship services. I've occasionally heard about tithing, but certainly no more than at other church services I've been to. No passing the plate around in their buildings.

They literally haul you into the bishop's office every year to shame you into giving more money. You will be denied sacraments, church membership, entry into the temple. Tithing is by far the most important part of being LDS. Just because

you don't witness what goes on behind the veil doesn't mean it isn't happening. That $100 billion didn't just appear out of thin air, it came from the members whose tithing obligation far exceeds their obligation to feed their families.

I've been a Bishop and have conducted tithing settlement with a lot of people. It is a voluntary meeting with the Bishop to declare your tithing status. You voluntarily sign up to go in. No one hauls you into the Bishop's office. You will not be denied taking the sacrament or have your membership threatened if you are not a tithe payer. You will not get a temple recommend if you are not a tithe payer but why would you want to go to the temple if you don't believe in it in the first place? Tithing is a commandment (read Malachi 3:8-12) and those that keep commandments are blessed as the referenced scripture states (in the LDS church or any other Christian Church for that matter). Bishops will encourage members to keep all commandments, including tithing, so the people will receive blessings, one of which is being worthy to attend the temple.

You really shouldn't say stuff like you do if you are going to give out false information.

joseph smith's 27 preteen wives wrote:

blamb61 wrote:

Judge not!

It's not for me to judge. Hinckley was judged by God, and found to be an ideal candidate for an everlasting period of torture in the fires of HELL.

HE tell you that?

BYU undergrad program ranked number 2 in the nation (2020) by US News and World Report

BYU masters in accountancy ranked #3 in the nation for "most admired" in 2017 by "Public Accounting Report".

Ranked #1 (Best Trained Candidates) in 2019 by Bloomberg Business Week.

Most grads would be LDS church members. You don't get those kind of rankings for taking care of money by being a crook!

https://marriottschool.byu.edu/news/rankings/

Parley pratts wife wrote:

joseph smith's 27 preteen wives wrote:

It's not for me to judge. Hinckley was judged by God, and found to be an ideal candidate for an everlasting period of torture in the fires of HELL.

Mormons don't believe in hell.

They get a good dose of belief after they die and get their first glimpse of that red hot pit.

blamb61 wrote:

BYU undergrad program ranked number 2 in the nation (2020) by US News and World Report

Most grads would be LDS church members. You don't get those kind of rankings for taking care of money by being a crook!

The serial ponzi scheming crook Henry Marsh learned his lessons well at BYU. That's for sure.

blamb61 wrote:

Snow wrote:

They are way more concerned about amassing money than about ministering to souls. Good luck trying to get into a temple without being up to date on your tithes. No matter the circumstances, collecting the cash is the most important thing going on in any LDS meeting. I know this for a fact because I have experienced it first hand for many years.

Nonsense. I've been a Bishop in the LDS church (still am but not in the calling) and finance clerk and that is not how it works. Why would you want to go to the temple if you don't believe in the religion? There is no plates passed at LDS meetings. It is all given discretely. We pay our tithing on-line so no one ever sees us do that in the general congregation. You are not being truthful!

No plates passed because it is all done discretely behind closed doors in the bishop's office. Why would you want to keep poor people out of the temple? Why would you rather see people go hungry than not enlarge the ever increasing pile of cash in the LDS coffers? Every word I wrote is truthful, and if you put away your prejudice and fear of the truth you would admit it.

BYU could face budget cuts. Obviously, the leaders of the church don't think that a $100 billion tax free nest egg is big enough. How much is enough? There is never enough. That is why they spend far less than 1% of the profits every year on charitable giving. There is a real balancing act. They need BYU to pump out missionaries to increase the pool of tithers, and to produce the bean counters, but they hate spending even one penny. On the other hand, it is entirely possible that they consider BYU to be a profit center in the manner of Trump University. There is no public proof that the church financially supports BYU at all. Unlike most legitimate religions, LDS refuses to disclose the income and outgo of their wealth.