Jack Frost wrote:
You claimed that it could not be taking as an injection or a drink, which is not true. Do you need to go back and read what you posted?
My claims is that is not how NOP was using it boost performance, fool. Now go read the report.
Jack Frost wrote:
You claimed that it could not be taking as an injection or a drink, which is not true. Do you need to go back and read what you posted?
My claims is that is not how NOP was using it boost performance, fool. Now go read the report.
Jack Frost wrote:
What are you talking about? I put in in my smoothie every morning. The entire stupid debacle came about because they wanted to see if they could circumvent the loading phase of the nutritional drink. I will also once again point out that Magness was not an athlete in the care of Salazar and it is a stretch to say that this test was a doping violation.
Why are you taking L-carnitine at all? You seem to be trying to justify your own gray zone doping.
I did and it documents athletes receiving injections. You must've missed the part about the less than 50ml by way of a butterfly needle not meeting the technical definition of an infusion. This was documented with USADA correspondence as an "injection". I believe you can go sift through pages 45-50 to refresh your memory.
you're in the wrong thread wrote:
sham man wrote:
The whole thing is a joke. African countries are taking full throttle EPO with impunity. And we're busing our guys for freaking vitamins that are on the edge of the rules, at worst.
Nobody was busted (or even bused) for vitamins.
Except for Alberto
You are absolutely clueless about the most effective way to get liquids into your system. It is not via a drink. It is not via a pill form. It is not via an injection. It is via INFUSION.
I see that someone asked you why you are trying to justify the use of the drug? You are an admitted user after all.
Wednesday wrote:
I read the report wrote:
Since this thread is designed for people who have read the report, I expect a higher standard of understanding and insight.
"Doping violation" is not equivalent to the use of performance enhancing drugs. There are also prohibited methods. Call it "violations of the WADA code" instead of "doping violation" and "doping scheme" if it makes you feel better. What he did was clearly and unambiguously in violation of that code.
Right. My point is that when the general public reads headlines like "Alberto Salazar gets a 4-year doping ban" or "Salazar's Doping Scandal" they presume that his athletes were taking banned substances (i.e., doping) and that is clearly not the case (at least based on the USADA report). I 100 % agree that Salazar violated the code, but for the athletes' sake one would hope that USADA would clarify with the media that this is an entirely different situation than pumping athletes up with PEDs.
I agree with you 100% but realize people have been after Salazar/Nike for years. They get any little nibble of information and they just run with it. Like the Lance text. How many times do you see that brought up. Now how many times do they show the whole text where he says “100% legal”. People made up this theory that Al and Lance were joined at the hip when in fact they only met a few times way before it came out that Lance doped.
I bet less than 1% of the people commenting face read the report to see what this is actually about.
Jack - the infusions, the method of L-carnitine loading, is the crime. No one is getting busted to taking it in pill form or blending it into a smoothie. WADA instututed a "no needles" rule after rampant doping/bood reinfusion in professional cycling and cross country skiing. Salazar is guilty of violating that protocol. If he had his athletes going to GNC to buy L-carnitine powder to mix in their orange juice every morning, there would be no problem. Using an IV bag to load huge amounts of L-carnitine at once = code violation.
Joe Public can see all the smoking guns that got put on ice. Go to hell all you Nike shills.
it's no more a drug than whey protein or BCAAs are. Heck, it's probably 1/10th Clearly no one actually gives a hoot as to what actually transpired. I love the part about the one instance of an infusion being tested on a non-athlete being transformed into a doping violation because the lab that produced the l-carnitine cocktail for the rest of the group stated quite clearly it was at 40ml per injection. I believe that to be on page 51 or 52 of the report.
This is only true if you believe that Magness was his athlete. Clearly that was not the arrangement or even the intent of the arrangement.
As a runner if my coach told me to take medicine X or Y that would be the end of our time together.
Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:
Jack - the infusions, the method of L-carnitine loading, is the crime. No one is getting busted to taking it in pill form or blending it into a smoothie. WADA instututed a "no needles" rule after rampant doping/bood reinfusion in professional cycling and cross country skiing.
This is incorrect. There has never been a "no needles" rule in the WADA code, although various sporting federations have adopted that rule.
what are you talking about wrote:
you're in the wrong thread wrote:
Nobody was busted (or even bused) for vitamins.
Except for Alberto
No. This is completely incorrect. The presence or absence of L-carnitine is completely irrelevant.
Alberto was busted for using prohibited methods and for trafficking banned substances.
Jack Frost wrote:
This is only true if you believe that Magness was his athlete. Clearly that was not the arrangement or even the intent of the arrangement.
What do you mean "his athlete?" We don't have slavery and people don't belong to other people.
Aden be banned if he gave a prohibited method to Farah, even if Farah was not "his athlete" but "belonged" to Alberto. There is no exemption that allows an Athlete support personnel to dope athletes they do not work closely with.
Pretty bad choice of words since we may be discussing people who actually escaped slavery.
Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:
WADA instututed a "no needles" rule after rampant doping/bood reinfusion in professional cycling and cross country skiing.
It's not quite that simple. Doping and blood reinfusion were already banned under the WADA rules, so there was no reason to add an infusion rule to prohibit them. According to WADA and USADA, the main reason to ban IVs was that they could help dopers beat drug test. At least that is what they say:
From the USADA:
Why the IV Rule?
"It is a fact that IVs can be used to change blood test results (such as hematocrit where EPO or blood doping is being used), mask urine test results (by dilution) or by administering prohibited substances in a way that will more quickly be cleared from the body in order to beat an anti-doping test."
From WADA:
Why are intravenous injections or infusions prohibited?
The intent of section M2.2 is to prohibit hemodilution, overhydration and the administration of prohibited substances by means of intravenous infusion.
IV infusions are included on the Prohibited List mainly because some athletes could use this Prohibited Method to:
a) enhance their performance by increasing plasma volume levels;
b) mask the use of a Prohibited Substance;
c) distort the values of their Athlete Biological Passport.
you're in the wrong thread wrote:
what are you talking about wrote:
Except for Alberto
No. This is completely incorrect. The presence or absence of L-carnitine is completely irrelevant.
Alberto was busted for using prohibited methods and for trafficking banned substances.
Right, vitamins. Prohibited methods with regards to.....vitamins.
What are you missing here?
He's working in gray areas with matchsticks while the Africans are using military grad flame throwers.
open your eyes wrote:
you're in the wrong thread wrote:
No. This is completely incorrect. The presence or absence of L-carnitine is completely irrelevant.
Alberto was busted for using prohibited methods and for trafficking banned substances.
Right, vitamins. Prohibited methods with regards to.....vitamins.
What are you missing here?
He's working in gray areas with matchsticks while the Africans are using military grad flame throwers.
No. You are either being deliberately obtuse or you do not understand the WADA code. The exact same actions, omitting the vitamins themselves, are still against the code. The fact that the vitamins were apparently present is irrelevant. So his ban had nothing at all to do with vitamins.
Magness was the only one proved to be over the limit because Salazar had Brown exclude and then falsify the dosage records of the others.
His assistant coach had them infused in a 1 liter IV bag and because of his status as a USATF member was declared an athlete by the arbitration panel. That’s why he was banned. There was no a single other instance of proving doping code violation in the entire report.
Jack Frost wrote:
His assistant coach had them infused in a 1 liter IV bag and because of his status as a USATF member was declared an athlete by the arbitration panel. That’s why he was banned. There was no a single other instance of proving doping code violation in the entire report.
Boy, there are a lot of wrong posts for a thread that is supposed to be for people who actually read the report.
He also trafficked in prohibited substances.
And tampering with doping controls.
Those are also both doping code violations.