this is sarcasm wrote:
Yes, that is why all the runners from Florida dominate Pikes Peak. Miami is better known as Everest base camp 2.
I've heard that the Nepalese are taking the extra $$$ from the lemmings on Everest and properly bribing the IAAF to hold the 2021 World Champs at Base Camp.
... This should neutralize the advantage the Africans have with their "heat" training and give the Sherpas an advantage.
midday kinda guy wrote:
Is there any benefit to running in the middle of the day when it is hottest as opposed to running at night when it's cooler?
My house only sits at 1,100 ft, and I raced between 7,200 and 8,870..the first few miles I FELT every bit of the altitude. I walked and hiked when I felt my system being taxed, by 4-5 miles in, my body was oddly adjusting, and I was lucky enough to finish strong and placed 15th amongst 300 runners. I was quite proud of that.
Where I live, the weather is rough for the most part. Winters are rough, and the summers are very humid. Lots of hills too. I say all this, because for me personally, I believe the varying elements combined with daily hilly regular runs, at least somewhat mentally prepared me for the altitude change. Toss in humidity at 70-80% with temps over 80 in the summer, it has to count for something, right?
I don't think there is any benefit from running in the heat and then in the cool. It's just that it's more comfortable to run when it's cool so you perform better.
Heat is like putting a small pebble in your shoe and running. It hurts its uncomfortable causes you to limp, to change your gait and stride... then you take out the pebble and Viola you can run fast again! So obviously the best way to run fast is to put small rocks inside your shoes to make your feet hurt, that way when you don't have the rocks you will feel GREAT.
You have just witness the birth of a new training regime- Rock Shoe Training. It's going to replace Daniels and Lydiard.
zohan wrote:
I don't think there is any benefit from running in the heat and then in the cool. It's just that it's more comfortable to run when it's cool so you perform better.
No, there more to it than that. If the heat/humidity reduces your oxygen consumption by 20%, it won't have the same effect on your pace.
So if it makes you more efficient.... voila.
This is hopeless. I posted 4 peer-reviewed scientific articles detailing the benefits of heat training (4 of many more available). And then there're 20 posts saying there is no benefit to heat training based on the pointless musings of people who don't have any idea what they're talking about. Yes, heat training is not the same as altitude training, because, obviously, lack of oxygen and heat/humidity are just different stressors. But, please Louise, read the damn studies before plowing more ignorance into the world.
Hello Morans wrote:
This is hopeless. I posted 4 peer-reviewed scientific articles detailing the benefits of heat training (4 of many more available).
Really? Where?
Louise. wrote:
Hello Morans wrote:
This is hopeless. I posted 4 peer-reviewed scientific articles detailing the benefits of heat training (4 of many more available).
Really? Where?
Page 1 of this post. Also check pubmed or scopus. This is a topic that's been well-researched, with physiologic mechanisms identified.
Mello Whorans wrote:
Page 1 of this post. Also check pubmed or scopus. This is a topic that's been well-researched, with physiologic mechanisms identified.
So, we have to subscribe just to read something that may not be worth reading?
And you go on a rant about posters not following your useless links?
Louise. wrote:
Mello Whorans wrote:
Page 1 of this post. Also check pubmed or scopus. This is a topic that's been well-researched, with physiologic mechanisms identified.
So, we have to subscribe just to read something that may not be worth reading?
And you go on a rant about posters not following your useless links?
The links don't even go to an abstract where I could find the title and author. It just redirects to a login page. I'd be glad to look them up through my own institution if I knew what studies were being linked, but as of now, the links provided are useless to me.
You can read the abstracts for free.
This is exactly the problem with LR. There is science, lots of it, just a click away, detailing how heat/humidity work to make adaptations/advantages. But, yeah, it's much better for every idiot and their brother to just post their opinions on the topic. So thanks for yours.
I'd like to look them up wrote:
Louise. wrote:
So, we have to subscribe just to read something that may not be worth reading?
And you go on a rant about posters not following your useless links?
The links don't even go to an abstract where I could find the title and author. It just redirects to a login page. I'd be glad to look them up through my own institution if I knew what studies were being linked, but as of now, the links provided are useless to me.
Didn't realize the scopus links won't work if not on an institution machine. But the articles all easily findable on PubMed (where the abstracts at least are available). Really, there's a good deal of research on this topic.
You went on a rant and called us morans and you had no idea that the links don't work for us. And you expect us to be satisfied with useless abstracts.
You're a complete fukking idiot.
Louise. wrote:
You went on a rant and called us morans and you had no idea that the links don't work for us. And you expect us to be satisfied with useless abstracts.
You're a complete fukking idiot.
How was I to know you access the internet via Starbucks wifi? Ehhh, I guess the fact that I have access to the articles at a research institution (and therefore couldn't tell whether the links would be publicly viewable) suggests....oh, how can I possibly argue with a wit as fine as yours.
Thanks for posting that. But now my brain is tired. As I've followed this thread I remembered that as I went from being a guy who couldn't run six minute pace for a single mile to one who eventually ran a hair faster than that for an entire marathon my big improvements always came in the fall. I've mostly attributed that to the fact that summer was always when I'd move my mileage up a notch or two and that lead to the improvements.
But I have also considered that training in heat and humidity followed by cooler weather was a big factor. We'd just talk then about how training in hot, humid, weather made you "tough" and how toughness translated to faster racing without any thought to physiology. The question that comes to mind now is even if the two mechanisms are different can they get you to the same place?
Hello Mora... wrote:
I'd like to look them up wrote:
The links don't even go to an abstract where I could find the title and author. It just redirects to a login page. I'd be glad to look them up through my own institution if I knew what studies were being linked, but as of now, the links provided are useless to me.
Didn't realize the scopus links won't work if not on an institution machine. But the articles all easily findable on PubMed (where the abstracts at least are available). Really, there's a good deal of research on this topic.
I don't know what articles you linked because I am redirected to a login page when I click the links. I'm sure they are easily findable if I know what I'm looking for, but I don't. Post the titles and authors and I'll gladly look up and read the studies through my own institution's service.
Auton Neurosci. 2016 Apr;196:52-62. doi: 10.1016/j.autneu.2016.02.002. Epub 2016 Feb 12.
Cardiovascular adaptations supporting human exercise-heat acclimation.
Périard JD1, Travers GJS2, Racinais S3, Sawka MN4.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25943654
Sports Med. 2016 Nov;46(11):1699-1724. doi: 10.1007/s40279-016-0538-5.
The Effects of Heat Adaptation on Physiology, Perception and Exercise Performance in the Heat: A Meta-Analysis.
Tyler CJ1, Reeve T2, Hodges GJ3, Cheung SS3.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27106556
Scand J Med Sci Sports. 2015 Jun;25 Suppl 1:20-38. doi: 10.1111/sms.12408.
Adaptations and mechanisms of human heat acclimation: Applications for competitive athletes and sports.
Périard JD1, Racinais S, Sawka MN.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25943654
Appl Physiol Nutr Metab. 2017 Mar;42(3):285-294. doi: 10.1139/apnm-2016-0349. Epub 2016 Nov 18.
Short-term heat acclimation improves the determinants of endurance performance and 5-km running performance in the heat.
James CA1,2, Richardson AJ1, Watt PW1, Willmott AG1, Gibson OR3, Maxwell NS1.
Of note, from the first study I included:
" Performance in cool environment
The observation of enhanced aerobic performance in cool conditions by Lorenzo et al. (2010) supports previous findings that heat acclimation improves V˙O2max
in untrained (13%) and unfit (23%) individuals in cool conditions (Shvartz et al., 1977). It also reinforces the 32% increase in run time to exhaustion noted in fit individuals by Scoon et al. (2007) after acclimation via post‐exercise sauna bathing, and the observation that swimmers training in a tropical climate (30 °C, 80% RH) in 30 °C water had greater improvements (10%) in performance when returning to a temperate environment (27.1 °C pool water) than swimmers who kept training in a temperate environment (Hue et al., 2007). Other studies have also observed that team‐sport athletes participating in preseason (Racinais et al., 2014), in‐season (Buchheit et al., 2011), and off‐season (heat and altitude; Buchheit et al., 2013) training camps in the heat (∼34 °C) improve performance by 7% and 44% (Yo‐Yo Intermittent Recovery test level 1 and 2, respectively) in temperate conditions (∼22 °C). The mechanisms modulating the transfer between hot and cool conditions could be linked to a variety of ergogenic responses, with cardiovascular/thermoregulatory (Lorenzo et al., 2010) and cellular (Bruchim et al., 2014) adaptations. As recently highlighted by Corbett et al. (2014), heat acclimation may provide a stimulus for improving performance in nonthermally challenging environments via improvements in V˙O2max, lactate threshold, and economy. Interestingly, it has also been suggested that heat acclimation may serve to preserve or enhance performance at altitude (White et al., 2014). The purported pathways for such a response include plasma volume expansion, improved cardiac efficiency, and involve the up‐regulation of hypoxia‐inducible factor‐1 in boosting oxygen delivery. Currently, however, additional research with well‐designed protocols (e.g., sufficient participants and control groups) is required to elucidate the mechanisms associated with improvements in performance at altitude and in cool conditions, as well as fully substantiate the ergogenic benefits of heat acclimation on performance in these environments. "
They are abstracts you idiot.
This is not a research institute, it's a running message board.
Give links to free full text or shut the eff up.
moran central wrote:
They are abstracts you idiot.
This is not a research institute, it's a running message board.
Give links to free full text or shut the eff up.
Relax, man. He gave us what we need to look up the articles on our own, just as I requested.
I am relaxed. Just poining out the stupidity of someome linking to absracts as though it's actually helpful to the discussion and then wondering why we don't read them?