Will Kelsey Chmiel be disqualifed from the NYS Championships?

Wait one second. While i have no issues with some runners helping others into the state meet I am also more than fine with athletes who have the standard running hard and winning the qualifier. “Disrespectful” is a completely poor interpretation of someone competing hard and winning their race. That is ultimately what the sport boils down to - racing others. For coaches to belly ache because another athletes wasn’t handed or gifted a trip to the state meet is embarrassing to their profession.

Wait one sec... wrote:

Wait one second. While i have no issues with some runners helping others into the state meet I am also more than fine with athletes who have the standard running hard and winning the qualifier. “Disrespectful” is a completely poor interpretation of someone competing hard and winning their race. That is ultimately what the sport boils down to - racing others. For coaches to belly ache because another athletes wasn’t handed or gifted a trip to the state meet is embarrassing to their profession.

Seriously, calling a winner disrespectful is about as bass ackward as it gets. What if that youngster was going for a n undefeated season? Some other coach feels its disrespectful for the kid to actually care? All this letting kids make it to the State meet is where the disrespect comes into play. Someone said it earlier, no wonder other sports think running is a joke. How many of these SJW coaches have draconian rules for their teams? If they cant win the state meet with the kids who actually deserve to be there, tough, no padding the start line with bonus runners.

Top 2 in each event on to the State/ Sectional meet.

That's the American way, not the elitist "well, she ran fast in April" routine.

NY has a new- Super Standard- you get it and you're auto in to States BUT you have to run that event at your State Quals Meet.

Many people run "easy" so someone else can win and go and if another non-winner get the "lower" state standard they, too can go to states.

She just did it wrong.

-u9hj wrote:

Top 2 in each event on to the State/ Sectional meet.

That's the American way, not the elitist "well, she ran fast in April" routine.

The top 2 do not go unless the 2nd placer has a state standard.

Too many states have these dumb rules. These meets should be considered prelims and use the normal prelim rules. The top 2 finishers from each sectional/district moves on and next X times, not previouldy run times. What if a kid peaked or is partly injured? That causes the best runners to move on instead of a potential bad runner who woukdnt h a ve made it on time which is what woukd have hapened here. The top 2 runners would have gone 1-2 in order to qualify and the next 2 probably wouldn't have made it on time.

This happend in my section /m- somehow if you had the super standard and tried you were an jerk. Coaches and kids were making comments and being rude if kids tried to run fast. Problem for us was we had he d2 super standard but wanted to improve on seeding to get in fast heat at states. But it was implied we were jerks and cost other kids opportunity for trying and not letting another team win.

The super standards just gave adults another way to manipulate getting the non elite to states... kids shouldn’t be bullied into boy trying to win. And that is what happen

runn wrote:

-u9hj wrote:

Top 2 in each event on to the State/ Sectional meet.

That's the American way, not the elitist "well, she ran fast in April" routine.

The top 2 do not go unless the 2nd placer has a state standard.

___________________________________________

That's fair enough but the elitist "super time" system should be done away with.

We should emulate the American way at the Olympic Trials.....top 3 make team. Had a bad day? Here's a tissue......

I seriously doubt the super standard will be back next year . Not only because of what happened at state qualifiers but also because in sprints and jumps the wind can make it too easy to meet the standard . I was at one sectional meet where the 100 had a 20 mph tail wind and 4 girls got the standard . Supposedly there are 30 boys in the hundred who met the superstandard :

Here is the root of the problem: sections have a big variation in size . Some have 30 teams and some have 120 teams. What they should do his simple . Sections get one, two or three qualifiers based on the number of teams in the section. Smallest sections get one , largest get three. You show up at state qualifiers and race for the spots

Hippohero wrote:

My daughter races the saratoga girls at local league meets throughout the season, they are head and shoulders above the rest of the runners and aren’t showboaty whatsoever. Chmile is a class act and simply wanted to qualify her teammate, her and kurto should be praised for their sportsmanship instead of being punished. They are two of the best runners in New York and don’t deserve to be patronized by you assholes.

You are clueless. This is an out and out sham and the girls and coach should all be banned. Want to help the slow girl get in, then don't run the race, or run it as a tempo run. I hope the girls and coach are all banned. They should be ashamed.

Niles wrote:

I don't necessarily agree. I think the superstandard is a good idea as it allows a very competitive section to send more athletes. If the three top NY athletes in an event are from one section should only two advance to states? I think the superstandard ensures the highest possible competition at the championship meet.

In MA, where I ran, the top two from each division go to the all-state final plus the next six fastest times. Lots of states have systems like this and it is based on the model of prelims at any big track and field meet at any level (high school, college, pro) where the winners or top two in each section go to the final (big Q) and then the next x number of people get the "little q." The superstandard is a bad way to replace the idea of the little q because then it allows athletes who are injured or burnt out to make the final instead of someone who trained smarter and peaked at a better time. It also creates situations where teammates can slow down like this (which I don't blame them for and probably would have done the same thing) but that isn't a good look for the sport. Also, reading what other posters have written about people being angry at the 4x8 team and the 400 hurdler for trying anyway is straight up crazy. It's track, it's a race, the point is to go fast and they have no obligation to let someone else into the state final to potentially make it harder for themselves to perform as well.

I hope this is the last time they try a super standard.

I'd watchy the video if i didnt have to pay for it

^ok that is a far better solution. Time qualifiers would make state quals a more intense race, I just worry about weather. With prelims at other meets you can assume conditions are pretty similar, but in a state wide contest some could be racing in ideal conditions while others could be in 35 and rainy. That’s the big flaw with this system.

I have one thought. Chmiel should not be criticized at all.

She's trying to help a teammate. The point of a team competition is to help the team do as well as possible. By qualifying more for state, they have that opportunity.

The rule is what is stupid as hell.

Either a) don't require them to run the race at all or b) get rid of the rule. I guess c) would be to require some sort of place minimum so you can't DNF.

In

Rojo, totally agree with you that Chmiel should be blameless. Fact of the day though, NY doesn't have a team competition at the state meet, so advancing a teammate does little more than provide an extra opportunity. NY rules are incredibly archaic for both track and XC.

In track, schools are split into Division I and Division II for the state qualifier (Essentially a prelim) and the state championship. Despite the fact that there is no team component, DII athletes are able to run at the state qualifier using slower seed times simply because they came from a smaller school.

Girls run the 1500m and the 3000m while the boys run the 1600m and the 3200m. Apparently that last 100m/200m must be too much too handle?

In XC, you must win your section in order to advance to the state meet (11 sections total, two of which don't even have a class A school). There is no secondary or at-large qualification system for teams. For nearly the entire last decade, a team left at home the weekend of states has advanced to NXNs often proving they are the 2nd best team in the state despite not being able to race at states.

The super standard was added to help advance more top-tier athletes as Sections 1, 2 and 3 would frequently have top-10 athletes left at home due to the tournament/bracket style advancement system since any given section could yield at most two runners, and even that isn't extremely common.

Unfortunately, our governing body is heavily entrenched and old-school. They like the rules the way they are and utterly refuse to adapt to the times.

Rojo , I agree that the PLAN of how they were going to help their teammate was fine but the execution of the PLAN left a lot to be desired . If they were running to pace why get 100 meters ahead of her ? Then to stop right before the finish was bad anyway you spin it.

Also I’m not sure how Wheeler qualified. She needed to run a 10:02. She had run 10:06 and ran a 10:08. How did she get in the State meet ?

What was she doing racing Freihofers 5km on the roads today?

Hounddogharrier wrote:

Rojo , I agree that the PLAN of how they were going to help their teammate was fine but the execution of the PLAN left a lot to be desired . If they were running to pace why get 100 meters ahead of her ? Then to stop right before the finish was bad anyway you spin it.

Also I’m not sure how Wheeler qualified. She needed to run a 10:02. She had run 10:06 and ran a 10:08. How did she get in the State meet ?

From what i gather the girl who won elected not to run the 3000 next week, so Wheeler became the top qualifier.

So do I understand this correctly?

Girls run standard events: 1500 and 3000. There are World Records for these. OK, no problem.

Boys don't run these but run the 1600 and 3200. These are not standard events. No WRs exist for them (or ARs or any other that I'm aware of).

I also read mention of both a 3k steeple (normal) and a 2k steeple (I watch as much track as is on TV and have never seen this) in the thread. Are these for boys and girls respectively?

NY is archaic is right. The State HS federation is a joke. I don't blame anyone for not participating in their nonsense. If you're into distance run road races. That's what all my friends and I did back in my teens. Avoid the clowns ruining 'official' HS running.