iflyboats wrote:
At 13:11 he is on the endurance end of the spectrum but as always that's genetics, not training. Don't let anyone ever tell you that someone who can run 3:52 doesn't have natural speed. There is no one who can run that fast who isn't well under 50 seconds for 400m.
Marty Liquori, for one.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=43325964332596 wrote:
iflyboats wrote:
At 13:11 he is on the endurance end of the spectrum but as always that's genetics, not training. Don't let anyone ever tell you that someone who can run 3:52 doesn't have natural speed. There is no one who can run that fast who isn't well under 50 seconds for 400m.
Marty Liquori, for one.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4332596
Got eem!
Love it when the self proclaimed experts here get destroyed.
I would be very surprised if he was not cross country skiing as a youngster. If so then he would have got used to mileage by 10 years of age as many do. In a country where cross country skiing and orienteering are the main sports you rarely see the best athletes on the track.
gjjffhj wrote:
110-120 is a ton for an 18 year old. that’s very impressive stuff. Higher that ritz and solinsky types at that age
Yes and No.
The popular saying among high school coaches is that high mileage is the "PED" of distance running. And it's TRUE!! It's not rocket science or a new theory. If you can boost the mileage of a young runner and they don't get hurt and or burned out (which is the tricky part) you're almost guaranteed success at some level. I do believe there's more to the Ingebrigtsen training formula than just high mileage. Running a 120 mpw is not the hard part.......it's the recovery that is the key factor and I think they're utilizing some form of PED.
As the saying goes......."You're not cheating until you get caught". Until then enjoy the show!!!!
LetsRun.com wrote:
Facinating article in the Irish Times today:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/it-s-in-our-dna-sharing-secrets-with-the-incredible-ingebrigtsens-1.3819495“120? No! 170km, 180km. So that’s 110, 120 miles. That’s why they can compete in several distances over a weekend. Jakob can run five, six seven competitions in three or four days. And they don’t have any natural speed. That’s their weak point. What they have is speed endurance, so they can always run at maximum speed. And that’s the tricky thing. You always need to be able to run your maximum speed for the last 300m of a 1,500m.”
Daddy Ingebrigtsen must think we were born yesterday.
4332596 wrote:
Marty Liquori, for one.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4332596
He had the capacity for sub-50 even if he never demonstrated it.
iflyboats wrote:
4332596 wrote:
Marty Liquori, for one.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4332596He had the capacity for sub-50 even if he never demonstrated it.
Did he ever do it? Besides, he was a 5000m runner. Who was also good at the 1500m. Canova explained on other threads about the top end speed in middle/long distance runners. One runner comes to mind is Alberto Cova. Who could finish a 10000m in like 52 seconds or something(correct me if I'm wrong, just off the top of my mind). And yet, completely fresh his fastest 400m he could run was the same as his 400m kick at the end of 10000m races.
Glen Grant wrote:
I would be very surprised if he was not cross country skiing as a youngster. If so then he would have got used to mileage by 10 years of age as many do. In a country where cross country skiing and orienteering are the main sports you rarely see the best athletes on the track.
Henrik was at national elite level for Nordic skiing as a youngster before he concentrated all on track, the brothers not skiing so much.
Even if Norway win a lot of medals in WChampionship orienteering not many of us do it.
The main sports are football (soccer), Nordic skiing including biathlon (shooting and skiing) and combined (jumping and skiing), all kind of Alpine skiing including snowboard, athletics, handball, volleyball, icehockey and up and coming triathlon, I have probably forgot a major one, but out of my head it was.
Talking of... wrote:
exrunner wrote:
Well his older brothers have shown burnout.
Henrik for example has just turned 28. His best 1500m came 5 years ago. He’s not been competitive on the world stage (i.e. make major finals) since 2013
How so? Last year Henrik got 3rd in the European Champs (13'19") and Filip ran 3'30.01"......
Lets talk of burnouts "ex-runner"....
Ouch! Henrik actually had the fastest 5,000m of a white guy last year up until the Brussels DL final where True & McSweyn were dragged through to fast times.
Talking of... wrote:
exrunner wrote:
Well his older brothers have shown burnout.
Henrik for example has just turned 28. His best 1500m came 5 years ago. He’s not been competitive on the world stage (i.e. make major finals) since 2013
How so? Last year Henrik got 3rd in the European Champs (13'19") and Filip ran 3'30.01"......
Lets talk of burnouts "ex-runner"....
Europeans are not major champs. I’m talking worlds and olympics, like he used to in 2012 and 2013.
I didn’t mention Filip either, he is young still
i agree. I’m slow (19 for 5k / 14hr for 100k) but I’ve done 100 mile weeks as a HS freshman. It’s really not that hard if you have the time (I can only really hit upwards of low 80s if I have the week or part of the week off from school). So many americans are afraid of mileage!
Subway Surfers wrote:
Talking of... wrote:
How so? Last year Henrik got 3rd in the European Champs (13'19") and Filip ran 3'30.01"......
Lets talk of burnouts "ex-runner"....
Ouch! Henrik actually had the fastest 5,000m of a white guy last year up until the Brussels DL final where True & McSweyn were dragged through to fast times.
What? The fastest 5000m time of a white guy other than the race where everyone ran faster than him? What kind of a clutching at straws statistic is that? I doubt henrik was in the top 30 5000m times in the world last year.
Henrik was best when he was 22/23 and now he’s moving up in distance. You wouldn’t expect him to make a world final again, especially not in the 1500m.
Everyone is being deliberately obtuse if they don’t think henrik has measurably declined from 2013 to now.
Can't tell if ex-runner is trolling or not. If not I can only assume he is in high school. That would be the only explanation for accusing an elite runner of burnout while they are still setting PRs. Burnout is a word that should have gone away with the training of the 90s.
this thread is fun because like everyone is full of dis-info as if it was a dis-info contest.
no speed quote is a total joke. all 3 norway boys can run a 50 second quarter, and probably 49 flat with a bit of a tune up, say three weeks of speed focus. that means the boys can do 23x in 200m and with specific traning 23 flat or 22 high.
this is not the definition of slow.
mileage 100miles per week farce disinfo. they'll be running some swift middle distance stuff in abundance.
there will be quality.
the trick to avoid burnout is not to over train. and recover.
you can do a lot of mileage and get away with it if you recover.
you do quality first absolutely, and recover, and mileage for aerobic engine and energy reserves.
a guy like rojo, never recovered properly in uni, then trained more sensibly.
then he makes the huge mistake in thinking it was all the mileage that did the trick.
what can you do when the 'leaders' here don't understand the basics?
omg
Bull sh!t wrote:
iflyboats wrote:
He had the capacity for sub-50 even if he never demonstrated it.
Did he ever do it? Besides, he was a 5000m runner. Who was also good at the 1500m. Canova explained on other threads about the top end speed in middle/long distance runners. One runner comes to mind is Alberto Cova. Who could finish a 10000m in like 52 seconds or something(correct me if I'm wrong, just off the top of my mind). And yet, completely fresh his fastest 400m he could run was the same as his 400m kick at the end of 10000m races.
49.2 on a relay.
I bet if Alberto cova in his prime was offered 1 million bucks and given a week, he would have run faster than his kick? Reality is very few 1500m runners do serious 400m after HS. And even there they are normally relays.
To some extent we are debating a couple seconds. The fast 350 milers run 47 low. The slow ones run 49s.
Sdddddd wrote:
Bull sh!t wrote:
Did he ever do it? Besides, he was a 5000m runner. Who was also good at the 1500m. Canova explained on other threads about the top end speed in middle/long distance runners. One runner comes to mind is Alberto Cova. Who could finish a 10000m in like 52 seconds or something(correct me if I'm wrong, just off the top of my mind). And yet, completely fresh his fastest 400m he could run was the same as his 400m kick at the end of 10000m races.
49.2 on a relay.
I bet if Alberto cova in his prime was offered 1 million bucks and given a week, he would have run faster than his kick? Reality is very few 1500m runners do serious 400m after HS. And even there they are normally relays.
To some extent we are debating a couple seconds. The fast 350 milers run 47 low. The slow ones run 49s.
yep. 99%
guys that close fast in distance races at their so called best 400m speed, that's an illusion, completely.
these guys have no ability in the start of a sprint.
normally there is one second difference between out of the blocks and running start.
but for some guys, its more like 1 and a half or so seconds, as they have no ability the get in motion.
with practice these distance guys can take their 100m down from 12x to 11 x,
which is meaningless ability for their event, unless they want to get a quick jump off a slow pace,
which i suppose is not worthless.
but the fast 100m start is meaningless off a pace, say going at 58 sec quarter pace at the bell...
kapish?
I doubt Bayi could have broken 50. Or Coghlan. At least from a standstill.
AP Stats wrote:
That study looks sketchy and the interpretation is excrement.
Your knowledge of it is undoubtedly sketchy and your interpretation of it is as you so aptly describe.
Are there some 3:52ish milers who can't break 50 in an open 400m? Probably, but they are few and far between. I agree with the other poster that most distance runners who claim they can't run faster than their kick at the end of the 5000m or 10000m just haven't given the 400m an honest try (and why would they?). But if given a million dollars and a couple weeks they'd probably run a 400m quicker than most people would think. But we are aruging about a few seconds. The fastest milers are ~46.X second guys for the most part (Coe, Mahk, etc) and the slowest are 49-50 and the bulk of the best probably fall somewhere in the 48 low to 49mid range.