Usain Bolt runs 4.22 to tie the fastest NFL 40...in sweats and sneakers

4.22 - 4.18 = ? wrote:

Bjørn Dæhlie wrote:

Add 0.24 seconds

Bzzt. Only 0.04.

(In 2017) John Ross blew everyone out of the water and set a new record of 4.22 seconds. Ross was (also) unofficially clocked at 4.18 — which would put him within a respectable distance of Bo Jackson’s legendary 4.13.

Haha get lost, as if hand timing is accurate to 4 hundredths! That is the speed of an eye blink!! There is a reason why before electronic timing the IAAF only kept records to 1 tenth of a second.

In a 40y the hand timer reacts to the visual cue of the athlete; the average human reaction time is 0.25 seconds.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Nope nope nope wrote:

officials are human and can't press the button exactly when they cross the line

Actually you can press the button pretty accurately if you're good at it.

A sprinter moving 10 m/s is going 1 meter every .1 seconds. To be off by 1 whole meter you have to be blind or have some kind of nerve disorder. The reason it's not reliable for records is there's no way to keep blind dullards from becoming officials.

In workouts I notice every time I'm off by more than 20cm or so, but I don't worry about it because 20cm is nothing time-wise for workouts. Competent hand-timers won't be off by more than a few hundredths.

It's not the finish which is the issue in legendary 40y times (which were often electronic)

It's the start.

ex-runner wrote:

In a 40y the hand timer reacts to the visual cue of the athlete; the average human reaction time is 0.25 seconds.

Beijing Olympic runners were measured for their reaction times, and the results concluded that male runners had an average reaction time of 166 milliseconds, or 0.166 of a second,

More fake facts wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

In a 40y the hand timer reacts to the visual cue of the athlete; the average human reaction time is 0.25 seconds.

Beijing Olympic runners were measured for their reaction times, and the results concluded that male runners had an average reaction time of 166 milliseconds, or 0.166 of a second,

And you think they use Olympic sprinters as hand timers in NFL combine 40y runs?

Even 0.166 is wayyyy slower than the 0.04 reaction time quoted in this thread!

Bo, ran a 6.18s 55m in 1983. He'd be faster a few years later,

Bolt supposedly was only 5.92s in 55m split. That's only 4% faster on paper, but you're taking the BEST of Bolt's performances, and only a random one of Bo's, when he was not at his peak. So my guess is that Bo is faster.

ex-runner wrote:

Even 0.166 is wayyyy slower than the 0.04 reaction time quoted in this thread!

Nobody quoted a 0.04 reaction time. They quoted a 0.04 Ross differential between the handtimers (4.18) and the laser-based electronics (4.22). If you can't even understand that, what's the point of pointing out your errors?

It's the start.

Bo's 4.13 was electronic.

Why are you bringing hand timing in to account?

Certainly Not Skuj wrote:

So, what was Bolt's 40 yards in his 9.58? I'm that info is out there somewhere.

I thought I read once that in his WR before the 9.58 (2008 Olympics) his last 40 was 3.96 while he was celebrating- which kind of made up for his spikes/running start. lol

Willie Gault (not) wrote:

Bo, ran a 6.18s 55m in 1983. He'd be faster a few years later,

Bolt supposedly was only 5.92s in 55m split. That's only 4% faster on paper, but you're taking the BEST of Bolt's performances, and only a random one of Bo's, when he was not at his peak. So my guess is that Bo is faster.

So 4% slower than 9.58 is 9.96.

What is your point exactly? Nobody denys that Bo Jackson was fast. Just that he wasn’t Bolt level.

too fast wrote:

It's the start.

Bo's 4.13 was electronic.

Why are you bringing hand timing in to account?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmS_P-Rhdig

The start is not electronic. The clock is started by the judge who reacts to the runners start. A timing gate will stop the clock at the finish electronically.

Please don’t lie and say that the time recorded in the mid 80s used some kind of laser technology triggered by Jackson’s movement start the clock.

“The 40-yard sprints at the combine have had semi-electronic timing since 1999 . It's not true electronic timing because while the clock is stopped electronically at the finish line, it's started by hand on the first movement by the runner. That's because the combine participants aren't reacting to a starter's gun. Instead, they begin running when they are ready.”

“The 40-yard sprints at the combine have had semi-electronic timing since 1999 . It's not true electronic timing because while the clock is stopped electronically at the finish line, it's started by hand on the first movement by the runner. That's because the combine participants aren't reacting to a starter's gun. Instead, they begin running when they are ready.”

Wow, talk about irrelevant!

It's almost like you've been ignoring the whole thread!!

Bo's 4.13 was NOT at the NFL combine! It was at the Auburn Day.

They could have used any system they had. He himself attested it was electronically timed.

I don't know why we're even arguing about it anymore.

exrunner wrote:

Willie Gault (not) wrote:

Bo, ran a 6.18s 55m in 1983. He'd be faster a few years later,

Bolt supposedly was only 5.92s in 55m split. That's only 4% faster on paper, but you're taking the BEST of Bolt's performances, and only a random one of Bo's, when he was not at his peak. So my guess is that Bo is faster.

So 4% slower than 9.58 is 9.96.

What is your point exactly? Nobody denys that Bo Jackson was fast. Just that he wasn’t Bolt level.

Bo never ran 9.96s @ 100m. But at 225 lbs (over 100 kg) he'd be slowing down bigtime relatively by 100m (10.39s PR).

That's why the 40y is the better number, comparatively.

Defensive guys, who wear almost no pads, are smaller and so can rack up better long-distance times.

"sweats and sneakers"

Err, the combine is in cleats on a synthetic turf, not in track zooms and a speedy surface.

Bolt's "record" is looking all the poorer as time rolls on.

Why Split Times are Bogus?

In the 100m, you accelerate as long as possible to reach top speed, then maintain top speed. You want to cover the distance in the shortest possible time.

The 40 yard dash is similar: your goal is to get to the 40 yard line as fast as possible from a motionless position. You have to overcome inertia, then reach top speed as fast as possible.

The “problem” is World class sprinters take longer to reach top speed because they have a longer acceleration phase.

It’s really unfair to use their actual 100 meter race splits and extrapolate their 40 yard dash time AS THEIR TRUE POTENTIAL. Why? Because the extrapolated 40 yard dash time is merely an extrapolation or “split en route” to a 100 meters.

http://speedendurance.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/fantasy-league-40-yard-dash-for-ben-johnson-usain-bolt.jpg

Faster than a PED'd Bolt wrote:

“The 40-yard sprints at the combine have had semi-electronic timing since 1999 . It's not true electronic timing because while the clock is stopped electronically at the finish line, it's started by hand on the first movement by the runner. That's because the combine participants aren't reacting to a starter's gun. Instead, they begin running when they are ready.”

Wow, talk about irrelevant!

It's almost like you've been ignoring the whole thread!!

Bo's 4.13 was NOT at the NFL combine! It was at the Auburn Day.

They could have used any system they had. He himself attested it was electronically timed.

I don't know why we're even arguing about it anymore.

The clock is started by a bloke with a button who reacts to the runner. It doesn’t matter that they had a light gate at the finish (electronic timing). Bo Jackson ran for 4.13s between when the man watching him decided Bo started to move, to when he hit the finish.

They don’t even have laser based start systems in the NFL combine today. Let alone at the Auburn Day in 1986 or whatever.

My point is, you cannot compare 40y times to professional sprinters timed in IAAF events or even compare 40y times to each other. They are meaningless measures of the judges reaction time which is generally between 0.1 and 0.25s. A huge margin of error in the region of 6%

This has become a timing 'discussion' so I'll put in my understanding.

For the start.

The track standard is electronic, which starts the clock with the gun trigger

pull.

For a stopwatch track start, the clock is started on seeing the smoke of the gun.

This has the clocker's reaction time for when the clock actually starts.

For the NFL 40, the clock starts on runner movement. This is still done

manually, so will also have clock starter's reaction time.

So the top one will have no reaction time. The second will have the

clocker's reaction time, and the last will effectively have the runner's plus

the clocker's reaction times as compared to the top one.

At the finish.

Electronic will stop the clock when the runner crosses the line.

There are some complications with the manual stoppage, however,

I believe the standard for track today is you are supposed to see

the runner cross the line and then press the button. There is therefore

reaction time in the stoppage, so should actually compare quite well

(although with less accuracy) to electronic. Electronic will have no

reaction time for either the start or the stop and the manual will have

reaction time for both.

Problem is, the guy stopping the clock almost always anticipates the

runner crossing the line and basically times pushing the button to

when the runner crosses. Effectively, depending on his skill,

taking reaction time out of it.

So when comparing 40 times, you have reaction times at the start

and the end as well as the reaction time of the runner which may or

may not be in there. Who knows, for example, how they factor into

what the Auburn football coaches were doing in the 80's.

i think 4.14

Very simply, 40y times are irrelevant for comparison unless they are timed by the same judge. Even then there will be discrepancies between runs.

It is completely false to remove the reaction time from IAAF sprint times for a 100m and say that is Bolt’s 40y. It is not. You also have to take into account that if Bolt ran a 40y in the NFL combine he would get the benefit of the judges reaction time.

This 4.22 shows exactly just how fast peak Bolt would run in a 40y. This is washed up Bolt in a tracksuit wearing trainers on AstroTurf. No studs for grip.

He passed 40y in his 100m WR in 4.35 or whatever. Take off his reaction time and it’s ~4.2. Take off the reaction time of an NFL judge starting the clock when he moves and it’s ~4.0.

Regarding Bo's supposed 4.13:

I think the one tiny detail everyone here seems to be skipping over is the fact that we're all taking Bo's word for it. Who else was present at this 1986 Pro Day that can attest to the validity of Bo Jackson's claim? It's hear-say.

And as others have stated already, 40y dash times are pretty suspect in general. Even the ones that are "electronically timed" are not FAT. There is still a human error factor at the start. I'm guessing this was especially true in 1986 at a pro-day event where Bo hadn't even planned to participate, and just sort of agreed at the last minute before track practice.