Sorry to burst your bubble Katelyn Tuohy fans, but Mary Cain's 9:38.68 full 2 mile is superior to Tuohy's 9:01.81 3000

I does not matter what Mary Cain ran whenever. She toast right now. She'll never come back to anything close to any kind of winning form. I just hope Tuohy continues on and just stays patient and improves slowly. She has many years ahead of her.

Aside from wejo's silly/mean-spirited wording, I think we all can agree: we want Katelyn to have a long, fantastic career. Not to burn brightly for a year or two then fall by the wayside.

Something the brojos perhaps don't seem to care about.

This is probably false. You can't really convert from one distance to another. If you ran 2 miles and set a record at that time, you set a record at that distance and time. A lot can happen between running different distances. Stop trying to convert and realize the greatness of each individual athlete.

joemama wrote:

I does not matter what Mary Cain ran whenever. She toast right now. She'll never come back to anything close to any kind of winning form. I just hope Tuohy continues on and just stays patient and improves slowly. She has many years ahead of her.

Thats like saying EL G sucks now and that his impact he had on the sport is gone because he isn't fast anymore. Why kick someone when they are down?

In hs at one point in time my 3200 time was the exact same time as my 3000m. You are saying I couldn't tell someone I could run a faster 3k ?

All the 9:30-9:40 hs boys I know of could run around 8:52-9:00 in the 3000. I was 9:00 with a 9:49 3200. To speculate that Cain could run at least a 8:55 is very reasonable in my opinion. Also think about when she ran a 15:45 just to get a qualifying time. Cain was a stronger runner than most would think which is why I think she could run around 8:55 for sure.

westsouthrunner wrote:

In hs at one point in time my 3200 time was the exact same time as my 3000m. You are saying I couldn't tell someone I could run a faster 3k ?

I think it's clear that's not what he's saying. This whole silly thread is about whether rojo has "burst the bubble" of Tuohy fans by pointing out that Cain once ran a 3000 in 9:04.5 with 7 perfectly-paced escorts -- and still had enough in the tank to kick for another 200 meters in 34.2 seconds.

Yup. It's fuzzy but perfectly reasonable to attempt. A 10:00 3200m would mean an en-route 9:22.5 3k at even pace; maybe slightly slower assuming the runner kicks during the last 200m to record that 10:00. If they're running a race that's shorter by 200m and they kick earlier, then it might be worth ~9:19---9:21? I'm not fond of these conversions and "worth..." time estimates but these examples being tossed around are pretty reasonable.

It's all about that pace, that pace wrote:

responding to tROllJO wrote:

you really can't have an en route time for a 3000 on the way to a 2 mile, and then back convert the 2 mile to a better 3000 time.

Sure you can! It's all about the pace. Do you really want to say Cain couldn't run a 3000 at the same pace she ran 2 miles. That seems silly.

As has been pointed out, the en-route time is "too slow" because Cain was pacing herself so she could kick at the end of the race. Since the overall pace includes the kick, it gives a more accurate prediction of her time.

This was my "Let's Run is too silly for me to stoop down and bother with anymore" post.

Goodbye.

Cain was faster up to 3200 and Tuohy is faster at longer distances. The point is that Tuohy isn’t a once in a lifetime talent when there is another one just a few years older than her. They are both once every 5 year talent the way we are going. I am betting that somebody beats Tuohy’s time in the next 5 years.

Cain rules wrote:

Cain was faster up to 3200 and Tuohy is faster at longer distances. The point is that Tuohy isn’t a once in a lifetime talent when there is another one just a few years older than her. They are both once every 5 year talent the way we are going. I am betting that somebody beats Tuohy’s time in the next 5 years.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the U.S. has never had a once-in-a-lifetime talent. So that may be your point, but it's not a point that anyone else here made. And it's not worth trolling your customers about.

Crazy to think about how to coach Tuohy.

One school would say that if a young person has the chance to be the best at something - I mean really excel - she should push herself to get there. Life lesson.

The other school would say 'don't get her hurt. don't get her hurt. Run 30-40 mpw until she gets physically stronger and less likely to get hurt.'

Such a tough problem, esp because of how girls often peak at 15-17. If they choose to wait...she may never hit her lifetime potential because of whatever makes girls start slowing down at 19 or 20.

joemama wrote:

I just hope Tuohy continues on and just stays patient and improves slowly. She has many years ahead of her.

or maybe she doesn't have so many years ahead of her.

that's the lesson from female phenoms, isn't it?

Nothing has to happen...trying to improve slowly might just mean she never hits her potential. that she will start slowing at 19 no matter what, even if she holds down training levels.

webby wrote:

westsouthrunner wrote:

In hs at one point in time my 3200 time was the exact same time as my 3000m. You are saying I couldn't tell someone I could run a faster 3k ?

I think it's clear that's not what he's saying. This whole silly thread is about whether rojo has "burst the bubble" of Tuohy fans by pointing out that Cain once ran a 3000 in 9:04.5 with 7 perfectly-paced escorts -- and still had enough in the tank to kick for another 200 meters in 34.2 seconds.

I see what youre saying.

On the contrary I like when someone points out similar or better performances when talking about the historical context on one runners performance. I would rather see someone pointing this out than us dismissing Alexa and Mary when it comes to saying Tuohy has a record. Same goes for Tuohy's Outdoor mile record. Also Tuohy just ran her race against pros the same as when Mary ran a 9:38.

westsouthrunner wrote:

webby wrote:

I think it's clear that's not what he's saying. This whole silly thread is about whether rojo has "burst the bubble" of Tuohy fans by pointing out that Cain once ran a 3000 in 9:04.5 with 7 perfectly-paced escorts -- and still had enough in the tank to kick for another 200 meters in 34.2 seconds.

I see what youre saying.

On the contrary I like when someone points out similar or better performances when talking about the historical context on one runners performance. I would rather see someone pointing this out than us dismissing Alexa and Mary when it comes to saying Tuohy has a record. Same goes for Tuohy's Outdoor mile record. Also Tuohy just ran her race against pros the same as when Mary ran a 9:38.

From this and other rojo posts on Tuohy, the sense that LRC guys have some sort of bone to pick with the Tuohy team. Just a suspicion...

Mary had a great run, but Alexa continues to improve and progress, now in her senior year at UP. Alexa ran 8:52 for 3k and 4:20.9 in the 5th Avenue Mile last summer. After coming off of a pr of 2:00.95 for 800m the previous year. I’m excited to see her race this year, she has grown and matured as an athlete. She looks like a woman and is still running fast. The best is yet to come!