Jim Ryun...getting it off my chest

HRE,

The point you make about building excitement about the sport is an excellent one. At the risk of propelling another argument, I'll bring up Prefontaine here - watching him race was always a pleasure (and made for great drama). His front-running style always had the knowledgable watchers awaiting his apparently inevitable demise...and against American competition, it rarely happened. He generated great excitement and was great for the sport. When he faced strong international competition, he rarely won. His legacy is in his racing and the gift he gave to those of my generation to take risks while running (something I'm NOT good at).

The real point of this is to say that whether we talk Ryun, Lindgren or Prefontaine; their legacies ARE NOT their medals (or lack of medals), it's in the legacy of their efforts and what it meant to the people who watched and were motivated. It might even be argued that some athletes and their unrewarded? striving is perhaps more motivating than if they'd achieved their goal(s). The two examples that come to mind for me are Patti Dillon and Tom Fleming at Boston.

PS - it was a pleasure meeting you at Boston.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stick wrote:

He complains about falling in 72, and says that he should have been given a free pass to the next round. (Has this ever happened at the Olympics? Ever?)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grant Robison advanced LAST YEAR when he was tripped in the Olympics. So, yeah, it happens.

---beat me too it....

Stick you are a chump---- Jim Ryun not getting advanced is more rare than guys getting advanced. Guys never get DQ'ed the impeded runner gets advanced.

Wayne B,

Excellent points. I've always been inspired by Ron Clarke, perhaps BECAUSE he came up short of his ultimate goal, as most of us will, and continued with the sport because he wanted to. The same could be said for Lindgren and Ryun.

Same here for your PS, and congratulations on getting your BQ.

Head to head how many times did Kip Keino beat Jim Ryun? Yeah that's what I thought...

And... take the 68 Olympics out of Mexico City and put it at sea level and Kip would have been hard pressed to win any Olympic medals.

As a side note, I looked at Ryun's bio on his House website and it appears that he has two-daughters-in-law, both are named Rebecca Anne Ryun! Someone correct me if this is not the case.

Please receive my comments only as a prompt for speculation, an inquiry, and not pejorative -

Jayhawk, D. Ryun, and some others have brought up, I believe, the core issue dealing with the merits of Lindgren, Ryun, Prefontain, and Keino as athletes. The medals simply don't tell the whole story. In the United States, running has often become something other than competition. Impressive times are just that; but the concept of a race, a contest, is the true glory of the sport. I read something on this site recently by Gerry Lindgren, about how boring it is watching the rabbited time-trial "races" these days. The true lovers of the sport are not going to be as excited about the Ethiopian trifecta running sub-13:00 in the second half of a 10k last year(obviously an amazing feat) as they will about El G. competing and winning the 1500 Gold, no matter what his time was.

The complaint about Ryun that I have heard, the only one that seems to have some validity, is that he wasn't so much of a racer as he was a runner. In other words, the guy could go out and set a world record in a dual meet, the highest-profile meet, or by himself in a time trial. Only one of the greatest running talents ever could do that, but does it really say anything about the competitor?

I'll leave that as it is, but I sure hope it doesn't come across as too disrespectful of a great athlete and man of God.

Jim Ryun was a great runner with a lot of mishaps. Just when you thought he was running strong, he screwed up. I can't stand that he would do that to us. It just hurt America a lot

Drew hit it on the head. You can't judge the greatness of Jim R. and Gerry L. based on the qty or color of their medals. The contribution of both men to the sport of athletics can instead be measured by the number of youths they inspired to commit themselves to the sport that we love. They were also world class and world record holders and there are not many runners in the US today that can claim that (even among our elite). His "screw ups" looked a shade of silver. Not a bad result. His times today would still put him on the Olympic team and would probably rank him as the best miler in the country (How many US athletes are running 3:51 when you take Lagat out of the picture?).

Regarding their personal lives the two men took very different routes. The thing that strikes me is that Gerry apparently lived for running while running was a part of Jim's life as he matured. People can criticize Jim Ryun for leaving the sport early and not being focused at the end but Jim Ryun is above all else a committed husband and father and his impact on the world will be greater than any other medalist that I know of. I don't see Michael Johnson's legacy lasting much beyond the gold that he accumulated.

After all, there is more to one's greatness than major running victories. That should be good news to us all as I doubt there are any posters here that have run a world record.

I beg to differ. Jim Ryun was a great competitor. Four races stand out in terms of his competitive grit. 1964 he made an incredible charge to barely make the Olympic team. 1965 Jim held off Peter Snell to win the 1965 AAU title setting an American Record in the process. 1966 Jim held off Jim Grelle and beat Kip Keino in setting an American Record at two miles. 1967 Ryun beat Keino again at 1,500 meters and set a world record. None of those races were specifically set up as record attempts, although Kip before the 67 race talked about setting a world record.

Ryun gets a bad rap because five high profile defeats, Mexico City in 68, his loss to Liquori in 69 at the NCAA's, his early exit in 69 at the AAU's, his defeat to Liquori in 71 and his fall in Munich.

I'd argue from 1965 up to Mexico City Jim was the top competitive runner in the world. He was much more than a record setter.

Christian Tracy wrote:

Drew hit it on the head. You can't judge the greatness of Jim R. and Gerry L. based on the qty or color of their medals. .

Also, does Bill Rodgers non ubiquitous colored medal count make him less a runner? Same with Pre, Salazar, Virgin, and Scott?

"I looked at Ryun's bio on his House website and it appears that he has two-daughters-in-law, both are named Rebecca Anne Ryun!"

-truth is stranger than fiction. all sense of normalcy goes out the window with ned and drew.

Christian-

I started laughing when I saw your post. Thanks for the props. Great article on my boss-couldn't have asked for a better one.

Nate-

I see you switched your alias. The Big Swede is right (he should know-he was in my wedding) and props to Carnivore69 for pointing it out. I married Rebecca Anne Douglas in December and Ned married Rebecca Anne Parker in February. Bizzare? Yes.

And both were given track and field trivia tests before the engagements.

Jayhawk wrote:

I'd argue from 1965 up to Mexico City Jim was the top competitive runner in the world. He was much more than a record setter.

Jayhawk, you are well informed and you present a convincing argument. The Olympics always remain, as one unfortunately vindictive poster correctly stated, the paramount competition of any runners' career, but I don't think this really diminishes Ron Clarke's greatness, for one. We all know how dominant he really was. At the same time, Billy Mills is almost as great in my mind for his legendary victory over Clarke, in the most important race of Mills' career.

I often wonder if people think about Jim's potential as a half-miler. Yes, he did set an 880 yards world record, but he hardy raced the event. It is my opinion that Jim, on Today's tracks would have run 1:41 low for 800m, especially if he raced it more often.

To Drew: Thanks for sharing for supporting your dad and for sharing thoughts with us.

To Gerry and Patti: Thanks for being two runners who put their heart into their racing. It is the toughness and the willingness to give it all you got the marked both of you as "champions" in my book. All the best, Tinman

I love Jim Ryun. Watching videos of his races is always inspiring. He is the most powerful runner I've ever watched- that stride was explosive!

Also, I think it's amazing that Mr. Ryun has gone on to a successful career in politics.

His whole life has been spent representing his country as best he possibly could- very, very admirable.

Way to go, Jim!

Also, congrats on the wedding, Drew!

Front page: Jim Ryun "defended" by his son... That Jim Ryun needs somebody to "defend" his running career is something that would only be possible in the alternate reality known as letsrun.com...

wannabe. wrote:

...That Jim Ryun needs somebody to "defend" his running career is something that would only be possible in the alternate reality known as letsrun.com...

Pretty much sums it up.