Breaking: Shalane and Meb react to Galen Rupp's Chicago Win

who cares? wrote:

Sorry gang - but I really don't care what Shalane or Meb "feel" or "suspect" about anything, be it the NOP or really any other topic. This thread blows.

Don't wish to be pedantic but you do care, you saw the subject title, clicked and posted.

Conclusion:

You're an idiot.

Should we all be running away from Let's Run? Running with Rupp and Hasay into the sunset?

Maybe I am a naive fool, but Jordan Hasay strikes me as one of the least likely athletes to sign off on doping for personal gain. She certainly is no Regina Jacobs.

Rupp....well, much easier to believe.

Stop right there Robert.

There is a difference between 'truth' as you describe it, and their 'opinion'.

They can opine all day.

And we can weigh it.

But they don't speak 'truth' because that is the side you take.

Its Egun wrote:

The LRC owners hate rupp.

Why?

It creates clicks to hate Rupp.

Who clicks?

HS wannabes and old wealthy bored white guys.

There are about 600-1000 LRC regulars.

It's 65% kids, and 30% old white guys.

The remainder are stumblers who find the site and leave.

The reprehensible work is done by Gault, he has replaced George in this role.

Gault has talent but low self esteem and the owners pay him so he perpetuates this vitriol or at the very least the constant drumbeat.

We hate Rupp? I gave him a splash page within 5 minutes of him crossing the line. What we hate is journalists who don't do their job.

Gault didn't make up the following "testosterone medication" picture from Rupp's HS days.

Stunt Double wrote:

She certainly is no Regina Jacobs.

Thank you for brining that name into discussion as many people are young and don't know who she is.

We were asking the same difficult questions when Regina was the darling of US distance circles. RW was fawning over her. Late 30s American giant.

Arguably the most famous article in LetsRun's first 5 years was this one. I asked the questions no one would ask then and Jon is asking them now.

Yes you hate Rupp.

Just come clean.

Rupp is awkward, very strange, his coach is a pr*ck beyond belief and always has been, so too were Dillinger and Bowerman.

I got dropped by Nike as an athlete after doing yoemans work for their high altitude testing team.

I don't like any of the current Nike distance folks as role models (save Hasay).

That's all been discussed.

I don't allow bullying, will fight forever against it, and I'll tell you directly that I believe your website acts the bully.

It's time to stop that.

I'm sure that it's mind boggling for Shalane Flanagan that Jordan Hasay has a faster marathon time than she has, or ever will have. Ditto Molly Huddle, Kara Goucher, Desi Linden, Amy Cragg. I doubt very much that anything that USADA/WADA uncovers will touch Jordan given her short tenure at NOP. It might be a different story with Rupp.

You called Shalane a crybaby and are complaining about bullying?

rojo wrote:

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

But what if you fool me three times?

Can't get fooled again?

Njj wrote:

They obviously don't know Galen Rupp or the Nike Oregon Project well. Flanagan and Meb(especially Coburn, Willis, Magness and others against the NOP) don't even know how hard they worked and how much sacrifices Galen made to achieve what he has. Keep on hating them and proving yourselves wrong.

#hatersgonnahate

Pretty sure Magness would know exactly how hard they worked.

Hmmmm, it seems Keflezighi is trying to walk the "very fine line" between not saying much/speaking well of Rupp and Hasay and saying something bad about them and NOP. And then when Keflezighi is pressed, he again walks that fine line.

And Flanagan seems to be sticking her toes into the controversy about NOP without taking a full dive into it. Still, she does bring up a valid point about who you associate with and what they may bring to your reputation.

It would be interesting to hear the whole interview to see what was said. Sometimes what is said and how it is said can be different to what is written......

who cares? wrote:

Sorry gang - but I really don't care what Shalane or Meb "feel" or "suspect" about anything, be it the NOP or really any other topic. This thread blows.

Sorry, guy, but I don't care what you "care" about any topic. Your post blows.

Also, learn to use punctuation.

Shalane's comments about what coach you associate with definitely appear to be a passive aggressive shot at Jordan. I truly think it's coming from a place of bitterness that Jordan is a clearly a better marathoner than her, and also that Shalane realizes she was a much better track runner than marathoner. All the years of talk about winning Boston and never coming close, plus now sorta implying she's in the same league as Mary Keitany since she beat her that time Mary blew up going out extremely fast in NYC shows a lot of ego. Sorry Shalane you aren't anywhere close to Mary Keitany in the marathon and Desi has come closer to winning Boston than you have. I've always been a big Shalane fan and thought it was a mistake for her to focus on the marathon so quickly after running 30:22 and her sub 15 5k last year sorta confirms that. It's just regrettable seeing how someone so successful is bitter about a rising star like Jordan. Throw all the shade you want at Rupp, but it's shitty to take a shot at Jordan. I bet it didn't help when one of Shalane's role models, Joanie, said Jordan is the future American record holder in the marathon . . .

Nice that you can pat yourselves on the back, but you avoided my main point which is that Regina had a self-righteous, cynical attitude, and a suspicious mid-30s surge in performance, neither of which apply to Jordan.

rojo, i have to respectfully disagree and say that it's entirely inaccurate for you to claim that rupp has "had massive improvements that few people in the world have" and then to use that as some kind of sign that he is doping. if anything, his progression is among the most gradual and consistent I can think of. he came into the elite scene already having shown immense talent. and his successes as a pro only seem "surprising" because so few others are able to live up to the initial hype/talent.

i would say his medals and times are what you would expect of someone who maximizes the talent level he showed in high school and college since he was well below 14 min 5k and close to 4 min mile in high school. I stress the phrase: maximizes the talent. maybe he and salazar got things right and got as close to the maximal yield of talent that other groups haven't been able to. does he push the envelope with what might be appropriate in training, of course he does. that's why there is an investigation. an investigation that as of yet has found nothing unambiguously illegal.

if it turns out that salazar was willing to get as close to the line of what is legal but never really crossed it, I can live with that. and others in the sport should as well. 10-20 years from now, if it turns out all the controversy was much ado about nothing...well, pretty sad that people can't celebrate what's in front of them. celebrating and appreciating medals, etc. at that point a decade after the fact will be too late/ won't mean much. on the other hand, if it turns out to be a lance armstrong-like story 10-20 years from now, well, then we'll still have a chance to dish out justice in the form of public ridicule then, but doing that now before anything has been discovered is pretty stupid and unjust. it's certainly not speeding up the process so it's not helping.

anyway, my initial point was that if you chart his improvements since then to now, it's a picture of consistency and gradual progression. nothing jumps out as an abrupt improvement. you can list other reasons you might be suspicious but this is not one of them.

Wow, disgusting wrote:

Shameful and repulsive remarks from Flanagan. I did not think Meb was such a tool either. Half the world's top athletes are on the WADA suspicious list, yet they have already congratulated a number of them.... but they can't say at least "good job" to Rupp? What scum!

Why are they scum? They are scum for telling the truth? That make no sense.

Why could anyone possibly be upset with Shalane?

She knows the following and as a result said she doesn't know what to think.

1) Know that ex- teammates and assistant coaches have gone to WADA with concerns. One of those concerns - that Galen Rupp was on a testosterone supplement as early as high school - was confirmed by Alberto Salazar - a man who admits he carries testosterone around with him on the road.

b) That WADA did an investigation and wrote an interim report saying the L-Carnitine injections were likely illegal.

c) That three members of the group - those closest to Salazar - Rupp, Farah and Jordan have all had massive improvements that few people in the world have.

Rupp went from a guy struggling ot break 4:00 to a 3:50 miler and two time Olympic medallist. Farah went from a midpacker in a World final to a dominant star and Hasay went from a non-Olympian to 3rd in two marathon majors.

Fool me once, shame on you.

Fool me twice, shame on me.

But what if you fool me three times?

They very well ALL may be clean but no one in their right mind except the athletes themselves should feel confident they know the truth.

Talking about suspsiciou improvements and performances that aren't normal? Meb's longevity is normal? Desiree Linden was a far poorer performer in high school and college than Jordan ever was. Shalane is just salty that her training partner is stuck in a 2:27:xx rut and will likely never come close to doing what Jordan did.

“That program, the NOP, has been under investigation for the last two years. So as a fan of my own sport, it’s hard to have full excitement and faith when you don’t know all the facts yet."

Well, to be fair the "investigation" has dragged on much longer than two years. It was active for a couple of years before it was even publicized by Propublica. The only reason that it is officially still open and ongoing is that USADA never closes the book.

There is still a fishing expedition going on to be sure, but the lack of any formal charges or suspensions after at least 4 years of "investigation" speaks volumes.