Good thing Engels didn't join BTC with them doping their best athlete.
Good thing Engels didn't join BTC with them doping their best athlete.
Salem, MA wrote:
BS. Not all elites dope. In fact, many elites don't show up on this list as having suspicious values.
Do you really believe that only the people on the list are suspicious?
Maybe this is an IQ or greed test -- the only people on that list are dumb, have bad doping protocols, or are incredibly greedy.
Wonder if the timeframe matched his NOP days.
There is no way everybody is doping. This is stupid.
Salem, MA wrote:
Yes, we'll (try to) find out soon WHETHER Jager and his coach are cheats.
Look, this doesn't look good for him. But can we please wait 2 days before ripping one of our top distance runners to shreds?
Just like most people on this site did when the ProPublica report came out a couple of years ago, right?
Half cocked wrote:
There is no way everybody is doping. This is stupid.
Some cycling fans might like to talk with you...
clearly an issue worthy of dis wrote:
the rest of us can cleary see there are dozens of cheats from all different countries and backgrounds.
I never have any idea what people mean by this sort of thing.
clearly? how is it clear? You can tell a guy who runs 3:33 really should be running 3:35? You can tell a woman who improves 5 seconds in the 1500 really should only have improved 3 seconds?
Nothing is clear - don't flatter yourself to make you feel smart and knowing.
eric a blair wrote:
clearly an issue worthy of dis wrote:the rest of us can cleary see there are dozens of cheats from all different countries and backgrounds.
I never have any idea what people mean by this sort of thing.
clearly? how is it clear? You can tell a guy who runs 3:33 really should be running 3:35? You can tell a woman who improves 5 seconds in the 1500 really should only have improved 3 seconds?
Nothing is clear - don't flatter yourself to make you feel smart and knowing.
+1
Salem, MA wrote:
Real Cyclist wrote:The running world still has their heads in the ground while in the cycling world we've already moved on long around knowing all elite athletes dope no matter the sport.
BS. Not all elites dope. In fact, many elites don't show up on this list as having suspicious values.
You may be right if you're talking about the NFL or NBA or pro soccer. In T&F, we've been working really hard at eradicating doping. It DOES seem that it's much harder to get away with it than it was in the past.
Of course we're not there yet, but we're trying, and the ABP is one of our biggest successes.
Stop trying to tear down the sport. Let's figure out which of these athletes we can prove doped, and get them the %$^* out of our sport.
In cycling, they did a really good job of calling the dopers out on the carpet when they got caught, this is why it seems like they have more dopers than other sports...they acknowledge its happening. T&F is starting to do the same thing, which is a good thing.
The thing is, does this actually discourage doping? Probably not, cyclists still dope, some of them get caught, some of them don't. Think about how many of the GC riders get tested more than twice a year...not that many. I would have to assume the same happens in t&f. I'm sure Farah and Rupp get tested all the time, just like Armstrong did. Think about all of the mid-pack elite runners though - they probably rarely get tested, and they have more motivation to dope than anyone, and no huge risk of getting caught. Let's say they are tested twice in a year, if they simply dope enough to never get past a suspicious level, then what's the motivation to not push the envelope? There's a pretty good chance they'll get away with it. Especially when a claim like "I ate tainted beef" is an acceptable excuse.
100% clean sport is a pipe dream. You can hope for a cleaner sport, but to completely eradicate doping is a fantasy. I've accepted it, so when I see results like "suspicious" or "likely doping", it doesn't change my opinion much at all.
Cooper. wrote:
Salem, MA wrote:BS. Not all elites dope. In fact, many elites don't show up on this list as having suspicious values.
You may be right if you're talking about the NFL or NBA or pro soccer. In T&F, we've been working really hard at eradicating doping. It DOES seem that it's much harder to get away with it than it was in the past.
Of course we're not there yet, but we're trying, and the ABP is one of our biggest successes.
Stop trying to tear down the sport. Let's figure out which of these athletes we can prove doped, and get them the %$^* out of our sport.
In cycling, they did a really good job of calling the dopers out on the carpet when they got caught, this is why it seems like they have more dopers than other sports...they acknowledge its happening. T&F is starting to do the same thing, which is a good thing.
The thing is, does this actually discourage doping? Probably not, cyclists still dope, some of them get caught, some of them don't. Think about how many of the GC riders get tested more than twice a year...not that many. I would have to assume the same happens in t&f. I'm sure Farah and Rupp get tested all the time, just like Armstrong did. Think about all of the mid-pack elite runners though - they probably rarely get tested, and they have more motivation to dope than anyone, and no huge risk of getting caught. Let's say they are tested twice in a year, if they simply dope enough to never get past a suspicious level, then what's the motivation to not push the envelope? There's a pretty good chance they'll get away with it. Especially when a claim like "I ate tainted beef" is an acceptable excuse.
100% clean sport is a pipe dream. You can hope for a cleaner sport, but to completely eradicate doping is a fantasy. I've accepted it, so when I see results like "suspicious" or "likely doping", it doesn't change my opinion much at all.
many feel the real goal of anti-doping is not to eliminate all doping. Because that is not possible to do.
Rather, a realistic goal is to force anyone who does dope to do so in very small quantities. So the drugs won't confer a massive advantage and clean athletes have a shot.
Bad Wigins wrote:
CKidd wrote:It's a list of runners, in a PDF, uploaded to a file sharing site by a group almost certainly sponsored by the Russian government.
If you are going to call yourself a skeptic, walk the walk. There is no way to attribute hacking, they use each other's tools all the time.
Fair enough.
Could have been the Russians, could have been a 400 lb guy in his Mom's basement.
All these clowns doping and they can't even run a world record.
I'd wear big sunglasses if I doped too
While I believe "likely" means they have no proof, I fail to see how these athletes have names listed while the Ethiopian stars' coach is in the next hotel room with epo filled syringe needles and they are not all on the list.......
Cooper. wrote:
Salem, MA wrote:BS. Not all elites dope. In fact, many elites don't show up on this list as having suspicious values.
You may be right if you're talking about the NFL or NBA or pro soccer. In T&F, we've been working really hard at eradicating doping. It DOES seem that it's much harder to get away with it than it was in the past.
Of course we're not there yet, but we're trying, and the ABP is one of our biggest successes.
Stop trying to tear down the sport. Let's figure out which of these athletes we can prove doped, and get them the %$^* out of our sport.
In cycling, they did a really good job of calling the dopers out on the carpet when they got caught, this is why it seems like they have more dopers than other sports...they acknowledge its happening. T&F is starting to do the same thing, which is a good thing.
The thing is, does this actually discourage doping? Probably not, cyclists still dope, some of them get caught, some of them don't. Think about how many of the GC riders get tested more than twice a year...not that many. I would have to assume the same happens in t&f. I'm sure Farah and Rupp get tested all the time, just like Armstrong did. Think about all of the mid-pack elite runners though - they probably rarely get tested, and they have more motivation to dope than anyone, and no huge risk of getting caught. Let's say they are tested twice in a year, if they simply dope enough to never get past a suspicious level, then what's the motivation to not push the envelope? There's a pretty good chance they'll get away with it. Especially when a claim like "I ate tainted beef" is an acceptable excuse.
100% clean sport is a pipe dream. You can hope for a cleaner sport, but to completely eradicate doping is a fantasy. I've accepted it, so when I see results like "suspicious" or "likely doping", it doesn't change my opinion much at all.
This seems basically on the mark. Cycling is one of the few sports that really has tried to do something about doping. Compare the NFL or European football. Obviously everyone is taking all manner of things, and no one cares at all. There is too much money in play. It's only in the cheap sports, like cycling and running where anyone tries to do anything at all. Running is harder to police than cycling because a runner can basically train on his own.
All the testing and controls have affected cycling. Guys like the Schlecks and Cadel Evans disappeared. Post beef Contador struggles to finish third or fourth (and he's probably the most naturally talented cyclist of his generation). They go slower than Armstrong and US Postal did. It hasn't killed it - look at Sky go - but it seems to have helped with the more egregious stuff.
Gwalkerruns wrote:
While I believe "likely" means they have no proof, I fail to see how these athletes have names listed while the Ethiopian stars' coach is in the next hotel room with epo filled syringe needles and they are not all on the list.......
Ummm, Farah was in Sadadell, Spain when that coach was caught with those syringes. Of course, Farah claimed he was in Font-romeu in France a few hours drive away, and never in Spain. But Farah blew it by proving he was in France by providing a photo of himself on the track in Sabadell. Oops.
Gwalkerruns wrote:
While I believe "likely" means they have no proof, I fail to see how these athletes have names listed while the Ethiopian stars' coach is in the next hotel room with epo filled syringe needles and they are not all on the list.......
"likely" is just a statistical measure based on blood passport results. Non-analytical positives would not factor in to this at all.
john bicourt wrote:
What nobody on here seems to realise, is that the IAAF are complicit in the monumental cover up all doping...............If it were only 3-4 and not big stars essential to the continuation of the IAAF circus and their sponsorship income, then the rest , like a few before them, would all be banned.............The IAAF, the IOC and all recognised nations NGB's are between a rock and a hard place over doping..They know it's going on. They know who's doing it. They'd ideally like to stop it ...but the last thing any of them want is to actually ban the very athletes who provide their own income and status.....Just imagine the impact on the sport if it occured that Farah and/or Bolt were found doping, were then banned and medals had to be handed back? ..........Well, don't worry because for those very reasons, it 'aint gonna happen !
Exactly! This has been going on since flojo, Lewis days of old. Ben Johnson wasn't ever supposed to get popped at the olympics......an over eager tester actually got ahold of the results and the IOC and IAAF couldn't cover it up.
This is a true story from an eye whiteness. I guarantee it still happens today.
What does Evan Jager's social media say?
kh wrote:
What does Evan Jager's social media say?
Crickets. Hopefully his response will be better than "never failed a blood test."