wtf wrote:
asked dick quax what mary used to enhance her recovery from a stress fracture in 1980. also compare pictures of mary in 1983 to 1985.
Could you post some links to said pics?
wtf wrote:
asked dick quax what mary used to enhance her recovery from a stress fracture in 1980. also compare pictures of mary in 1983 to 1985.
Could you post some links to said pics?
potty head wrote:
as a teen:
http://www.mtnrnr.com/assets/decker14b.gif1983:
http://i24.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/d7/85/6e_1_b.JPG1984:
http://i3.ebayimg.com/03/i/03/d3/2e/72_1_b.JPG1985:
http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/ca/0b/88_1_b.JPG
The scans are not of very good quality, but based on what I can discern, Mary looks a tad more muscular/less soft in the '85 pic. Yet she hardly screams steroids--I see numerous leaner/more muscular natural female athletes on a regular basis...
Just playing Devil's Advocate, btw. I'd bet good money she did use drugs, but I'm not certain _when_ she was on 'em...
if paula radcliffe wins the masters division at london 15 years form now and is caught doping, does that mean she's not clean now, when it really matters?[/quote]
YES!!! If Paula makes the moral decision to take drugs at 40 years of age, she certainly wouldn't shy from taking them now. That's not to say that she is, it's just that this statement is absurd.
Zola's Stinky Feet wrote:
the legacy she set for herself is based in the 80s, not the 90s. and almost no one who competed during mary's prime was still competing in 1996 like she was. so how do we know if ANY of her 70s-80s contemporaries were ever clean, since you say "NOBODY tested positive" then?
Uh, that's kind of my point. It's generally acknowledged that most if not all of the eastern european marks from the 80s were drug aided. The Eastern Europeans, like Slaney, were passing drug tests at the time. So, Slaney's late-career failed test suggests to me that there is a VERY STRONG possibility that she was not the clean American girl up against the evil Eastern-block drug-monsters back in the 80s. I think you'd have to be deliberately myopic not to consider Slaney's 80s marks to be just as tainted as Kratochvilova's (sp?) or Kazankina's. If you want to hang your hat on the fact that Slaney never failed drug tests in her prime, then you have to say the same thing for Kazankina, which, although true, doesn't mean anything.
He's Catholic.
I remember the 80s wrote:
Uh, that's kind of my point. It's generally acknowledged that most if not all of the eastern european marks from the 80s were drug aided. The Eastern Europeans, like Slaney, were passing drug tests at the time. So, Slaney's late-career failed test suggests to me that there is a VERY STRONG possibility that she was not the clean American girl up against the evil Eastern-block drug-monsters back in the 80s. I think you'd have to be deliberately myopic not to consider Slaney's 80s marks to be just as tainted as Kratochvilova's (sp?) or Kazankina's. If you want to hang your hat on the fact that Slaney never failed drug tests in her prime, then you have to say the same thing for Kazankina, which, although true, doesn't mean anything.
UH, no, your point is that anyone is was never found dirty is questionable. Therefore, how do you know Carl Lewis, Edwin Moses, Evelyn Ashford, Willie Banks, Johnny Gray, etc were clean at all. NONE of them were competing in 1996, like Mary, so they could be tested, like Mary. Just b/c these other runners were never tested with Mary in 1996 and found dirty doesnt mean they were clean.
On what basis do you believe any of these athletes, above, were ever clean? Mary took the same tests as they did.
I remember the 80s wrote:
Uh, that's kind of my point. It's generally acknowledged that most if not all of the eastern european marks from the 80s were drug aided. The Eastern Europeans, like Slaney, were passing drug tests at the time. So, Slaney's late-career failed test suggests to me that there is a VERY STRONG possibility that she was not the clean American girl up against the evil Eastern-block drug-monsters back in the 80s. I think you'd have to be deliberately myopic not to consider Slaney's 80s marks to be just as tainted as Kratochvilova's (sp?) or Kazankina's. If you want to hang your hat on the fact that Slaney never failed drug tests in her prime, then you have to say the same thing for Kazankina, which, although true, doesn't mean anything.
UH, no, your point is that anyone who was never found to be dirty is questionable--your point is that Mary was dirty in 1983 b/c she was allegedly dirty 13 years later in 1996. Therefore, how do you know Valerie Brisco, Edwin Moses, Evelyn Ashford, Willie Banks, Johnny Gray, etc were clean at all. NONE of them were competing in 1996, like Mary, so that they could be tested, like Mary. Just b/c these other runners were never tested with Mary in 1996 and found dirty doesnt mean they were clean.
On what basis do you believe any of these athletes, above, were ever clean? Mary took the same tests as they did.[/quote]
Zola's Stinky Feet:Okay, here goes my last try. You initiated all this by asking if anybody could explain "27 years of non detection and non accusations on the woman. boggles the mind." I merely pointed out that there were lots and lots of steroid-using athletes in that era who passed all their tests. The "non-detection" doesn't boggle my mind. On the contrary, it proves absolutely nothing, and certainly doesn't weigh against her later failed test. That was why I responded initially.
Zola's Stinky Feet wrote:
UH, no, your point is that anyone who was never found to be dirty is questionable--your point is that Mary was dirty in 1983 b/c she was allegedly dirty 13 years later in 1996. Therefore, how do you know Valerie Brisco, Edwin Moses, Evelyn Ashford, Willie Banks, Johnny Gray, etc were clean at all. NONE of them were competing in 1996, like Mary, so that they could be tested, like Mary. Just b/c these other runners were never tested with Mary in 1996 and found dirty doesnt mean they were clean.
On what basis do you believe any of these athletes, above, were ever clean? Mary took the same tests as they did.
[/quote]
I agree with you, I think. I DON'T know how many of the stars of the 80s were clean. Certainly not all of them, wouldn't you agree? In fact, it would not surprise me to find out that ANY world-class individual used PE drugs in that era. I am not holding Slaney to a different standard. If Lewis had tested positive in Atlanta, I'd have thought the same thing about him. If Moses had tested positive in his ill-fated comeback, ditto. But they didn't, so I don't know. And if somebody I trusted told me they sold steroids to any top 80s athlete, I sure wouldn't be as shocked as you seem to be about the idea that Slaney used them.
But unlike these others, I DO know Slaney failed a test at the end of her career. That tips the scales for me. I think the only thing keeping 80s athletes away from steroids was either a personal code of ethics or lack of access (the tests weren't doing it). Slaney didn't have either of these impediments, apparently.
Look, if I were a court of law, I wouldn't find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I have no conclusive proof she used them in the 80s. But that's not the situation. I'm just an observer who can put 2 and 2 together. I just can't get past the facts: 1. Lots and lots of steroid use in the 80s. 2. Slaney at very top level. 3. Slaney later fails drug test.
You're free to see things differently, but forgive some of us if we think you're naive. Take care.
I remember the 80s wrote:
I agree with you, I think. I DON'T know how many of the stars of the 80s were clean. Certainly not all of them, wouldn't you agree?
dunno. im no drug expert. are you? i'll rely on their own tests. those experts and testers never found mary dirty when she was at her peak. nuff said.
maybe joan benoit was in fact dirty too and stopped in time before getting caught before she stopped. gosh, winning the trials 17 days after knee surgery then going on to win the olympics? if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be drugs!
potty head wrote:
as a teen:
http://www.mtnrnr.com/assets/decker14b.gif
Note the acne. So there you go -- she was doping at 14!
btw, has an individual close to mary ever come out and said they saw her ingest/inject anything?
with many of these high profile drug cases, someone close to the alleged doper always comes out and says they witnessed something.
who is mary's jose canseco, if there is one?
Zola's Stinky Feet wrote:
btw, has an individual close to mary ever come out and said they saw her ingest/inject anything?
with many of these high profile drug cases, someone close to the alleged doper always comes out and says they witnessed something.
who is mary's jose canseco, if there is one?
Ron Tabb has seen it.
Sonny Boy wrote:
Note the acne. So there you go -- she wa?s doping at 14!
No severe "all over her back" at age 37. Keep trying sonny boy.
i googled and yahooed "ron tabb mary slaney EPO" and "ron tabb mary decker EPO". no articles anywhere report he saw anything.
post of the week
kind of odd that so many people here would "know" that ron tabb witnessed something, but absolutely no reporters or publications wrote anything about it that can be googled.
Zola's Stinky Feet wrote:
kind of odd that so many people here would "know" that ron tabb witnessed something, but absolutely no reporters or publications wrote anything about it that can be googled.
There are at least 2 dozen people who post here who know Ron Tabb personally. You're swimming in a big pond now.
Oakway Spa wrote:
Sonny Boy wrote:Note the acne. So there you go -- she wa?s doping at 14!
No severe "all over her back" at age 37. Keep trying sonny boy.
Isn't really much effort. Just pointing out the obvious. I have no stake in this personally, but I feel an obligation to belittle feeble-minded speculation when I see it. I have friends who are 50 years old and have zits on their back, fer cryin' out loud.
And spare us the ominous warnings about "swimming in a big pond," whatever that means. Hearsay about what Mary Slaney's ex-husband allegedly said doesn't really matter a damn. It does seem to make nameless, faceless little snipers feel important though.
