GBR Andrew Butchart -- Profile, Progression, Questions?

aosdufy wrote:

..and I agree that AW-quoted training is not the story. Could be any number of HS kids weeks. Would not take you from 13:44 to 13:08, thats for sure.

You don't know anything about his training. The mileage means nothing. Any clown can run 100 mpw. Maybe he's doing the 1k reps in 3:00 , maybe he's doing them in 2:30.

Agreed. Dale, you're really making yourself (and by extension, your buddy Andy) look bad here. What WOULD be great would be if you shared some real insights into what's changed for him.

And for the record, I don't really think he's a doper and don't really care either way.

Dale Colley wrote:

you obviously know fuc* all about running and just athletes in general if you think you every athlete has to run 180 miles a week to get some where. I must be a total loser? You don't even me! Why don't you come down to central training and I'll give you a lesson on running because you are clearly a f*cking retard.

Any sudden performance jumps of any great amount bring further scrutiny and questions. Especially if there is a certain level of "obscurity to world's 6th best" while registering a PR that reveals a 50 second drop in 2 years. Especially if testing requirements for a club runner are minimal/nonexistent.

It is laughable.

I am a great guy, couldn't agree with you more.

I know why he's made his 'quantum leap' he is more gifted than anyone I've seen. Winning the Celtic international cross country in Cardiff training on a weekly mileage of 20/30 for example. He wants it to be an athlete and he made it. No one on this forum has the right to accuse of him of anything else because no one on here actually knows him at all. I said before he put in the time and effort and made all the sacrifices to get him there. Spending months at altitude training working his arse off.

That's why he's made his quantum leap.

Guys, don't fvck with Dale.

https://twitter.com/daleccolley/status/492698628621082624

You have a link to my Twitter showing a laugh between club mates....wow.

You are pathetic buddy.

People asked why andrew got so good. And I answered. What else do you want?

Dale is correct. Its well enough known in Scottish running circles that Andrew Butchart only took running seriously a couple of years ago. Hence the big improvement. He wasn't a top junior, he isn't a burnt out collegiate runner, he wasn't part of some group of athletes lodging in a house in Teddington, getting entered into top races.

He is a product of the excellent club and cross country and track system in Scotland which has also produced the 9th placer in the mens' marathon (and all 3 male marathon representatives in Rio) and top 1500m runner Laura Muir and 5000m finalist Elish McColgan. And the latter two, as is common in Scotland, don't run big mileages either but concentrate on quality and recovery because they have the basic speed and aren't burnt out or maxed out by some college coach's ambitions before they get to senior races.

perhaps the doubters should be asking how come little ole Scotland are now producing more world class performers: Sharp, Muir, Butchart, Hawkins etc. In contrast to what's happening in England, there has been a real resurgence recently in Scottish Athletics at grass roots level with for example record numbers participating in national club events. With a larger talent pool, improved facilities, excellent coaches etc the Jocks are on the march.

BlaseBill wrote:

Dale is correct. Its well enough known in Scottish running circles that Andrew Butchart only took running seriously a couple of years ago. Hence the big improvement. He wasn't a top junior, he isn't a burnt out collegiate runner, he wasn't part of some group of athletes lodging in a house in Teddington, getting entered into top races.

He is a product of the excellent club and cross country and track system in Scotland which has also produced the 9th placer in the mens' marathon (and all 3 male marathon representatives in Rio) and top 1500m runner Laura Muir and 5000m finalist Elish McColgan. And the latter two, as is common in Scotland, don't run big mileages either but concentrate on quality and recovery because they have the basic speed and aren't burnt out or maxed out by some college coach's ambitions before they get to senior races.

Bang on the money. Look at Tom Farrell. Much better runner at a young age, but has struggled the last few years and not set any PBs. Qualified for the Olympics but wasn't veey convincing at all.

Butchart is the opposite of this guy. What's changed for him? He trains full time, and is in considerably better races now than back in 2012 and 2014. He's also managed to stay injury free and train with a complete focus for the last few years. That, allied with a superb natural running style and losing a fair bit of weight has taken him to the world level.

If you google his name and the herald Newspaper, there are a good few articles about him, one in which he admits to being "lazy", and not training anywhere near as hard as those around him in races.

I would've love to have gone from 15:18 to 13:58.

Yeah, seems natural to me. Yup.

Mo has proven the benefit of being "lazy"into your twenties, then suddenly finding a work ethic and dropping time like crazy. Works better if you can wait until age 26 or so.

Dale Colley wrote:

you obviously know fuc* all about running and just athletes in general if you think you every athlete has to run 180 miles a week to get some where. I must be a total loser? You don't even me! Why don't you come down to central training and I'll give you a lesson on running because you are clearly a f*cking retard.

You are a huge loser.

1500 3:48.84

Mile 4:55.68

3000 8:30.56i 8:30.56i 8:49.13i 8:58.83 10:00.0

5000 16:31.34

10000 34:52.60

"Spending months at altitude training working his arse off.

That's why he's made his quantum leap."

Oh yeah, where would that be? Iten? 9000 feet in Ethiopia. With Mo?

You're not too bright Mr. 16:30. You're just digging a bigger hole.

Do you guys know Thomas McDonald?

http://citizentv.co.ke/sports/scottish-runner-mcdonald-denies-he-was-part-of-ard-expose-133371/

OK, he did cross, then he went to Flagstaff, and before the Olympics he trained in France at 7,800.

The workouts were from April this year.

So maybe he's a super responder to altitude.

Yeah...the good old days. Mo ran 13:08 while living in Teddington too!

There isn't a "Butchart's doping allegation" here. It asks for questions. Many of us here are established competitive runners or were, or coaches, and involved with the sport. We're not all basement dwellers. I started this thread to ask a question--how do you account for the jump? A jump and absolute peak for the Olympic final. He's the fastest Scott and third fastest GBR runner ever. Ask questions. Question everything.

The 13:18 was at Peyton Jordan after training at 7,000 feet in Flag. Similar time zone?

GJK wrote:

I would've love to have gone from 15:18 to 13:58.

Yeah, seems natural to me. Yup.

Running 13:58 is not "natural." If it were we'd all do it.