Western State vs Stanford etc

Obviously cross country is hard to compare. Courses, climate, etc. So why don't we find a recent common denominator? I don't want to to do this homework, but maybe someone wants to compare the Western Results from Rimrock Farm at 99 Nats with the D1 Nats run on the same course on the same day. This isn't perfect, because most of those runners have moved on, but it might give you an idea. Just a suggestion, I have no idea what it will show.

jb

I have no doubt that Western State could be competitive in D1. Is that to say they can win it? No. Stanford has about ten guys capable of sub-14:00, ark has at least six or seven. This year's CU xc team had four sub-14:00 5k'ers on it and Wisc has a few as well. But then again, it's xc. So, track times aren't always telling. That said. Could Western State have been close to Stanford this year? No. Could they contend for a podium spot? Yes.

The RimRock meet to which you refer is too long ago to compare. It was from '98, five years ago when Western wasn't even the best D2 team that year. But here is something a little more recent. In 2000 Abliene Christian twice beat Arkansas. Once at the Cowboy Jamboree over 8k. The other time at the Chili Pepper meet over 10k. Arkansas runs their "A" team at both of these meets. Arkansas also went on to win the D1 title that year. While at the D2 championship, not only did Western beat Abliene, but they scored HALF as many points as Abielne did. But that was three years ago now, and they are probably much worse now with only three sub 14:00 guys, verses then when they had only one.

1998 Cross Nats would not be a good comparison for anything anyways. Division I ran late morning and Division II ran mid afternoon. Temps were about 15 to 20 degrees different. It was probably 45 - 50 for division I and about 65 - 70 for division II.

I guess thepoint that I am trying to make is, these guys could compete with anyone anytime anywhere. don't think so, then just ask the director of the Griak to let them in the race and see how they finish compared to Wisconsin and Eastern Michigan and Notre Dame(three top ten teams @last year's NCAA's)

why wont they let them in? Its a freaking invite.

I think that the Western supporters got a bit carried away with their top 5 predictions. Theres no way they would get top 5. To compare track times is useless because Western are a pure distance team that just about all run the 5k. Most D1 schools have guys concentrating on 1500's and 10k's so don't run 5k's but they would kill the Western guys over Cross Country. Where would Western's low points come from? Now Aish has gone not one of there guys is capable of a top 30 finish.

I have to agree though that some people are being a little hard on the Western guys. They are certainly good enough to make D1 nationals but I think they would be well outside the top 10. I remember that at the Cowboy Jamboree (OSU) ACU always give Arkansas a good run early in the cross season.

I didn't ever say that there were teams other than Stanford, Arkansas, and Colorado that have consistently had the depth that Western had this past year. However I sure wouldn't put any stock in early-season results. I don't care what the director of the Griack meet does, either. Griack, Pre-Nats, and Nats are NOT the only three meets in the entire season where a significant number of D1 powers convene. And with the prospect of SuperRegionals, all but one of those will find greatly diminished quality in future fields. Arkansas lets ACU in, there should be no reason that Western couldn't run that meet. Ditto for Great American or the Stanford meet (ASC has run there). I would have little doubt, however, that Wisco, NAU, Oregon, and a few others could "run with" Western.

Unfortunately, Mt. SAC will not the the trump card that you fantasize it to be, with regional qualifying in place for all events except the 10K and the multis for D1. There's no longer any need for Arkansas, Colorado, Wisconsin, etc. to send 1500, steeple, and 5K runners across the country for warm-weather sea-level historically-stacked races that mean nothing in terms of outdoor nationals.

It's as absurd to say that Western wouldn't qualify for the Div I XC champs as is it to say that Western would challenge for a podium spot.

They'd make it and finish 10-15 on a good day in all likelihood. A few years ago, when they had Aish they might have challenged for a podium spot.

adfsafhs, or whatever, i was replying to KL who DEFINITELY seems to be discussing MOST DI teams in regard to having 6-7 guys 26flat or better. Loooook, i'm not an idiot, pal. i know stanford has a great f***ing team. but let's face it. they, as well as the other top programs in DI, are certainly not representative of DI as a whole. again, according to the ncaa website there are 309 DI men's xc teams. Do you really believe that 155 or more of those can put forth 6-7 sub 26 guys? Also, i never said that i thought western could have competed for a DI trophy (at least not with aish being done), but i will go on record as saying that there's NO WAY IN FUCKIN HELL THEY WOULDN'T HAVE QUALIFIED FOR DI NATIONALS THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.