yea i was a little underwhelmed when I read that Brazier's time was 8th faster junior ever. definitely lying about age
yea i was a little underwhelmed when I read that Brazier's time was 8th faster junior ever. definitely lying about age
From the way I was taught, I calculated 1:41.73 as 1.82 s faster than 1:43.55, not "light years." And Brazier did not have a 1:40.91 pacer to 800m.
And, there is no way that Nijel Amos was the age they claimed. Look at his career arc.
Yes
Junior records are nice mile posts but really have pretty small significance when you evaluate an athlete's career. In the end, if they don't make it at the senior level, they're just remembered as "might have beens." And we're seeing a lot of that in US middle distance running right now, especially among the women. I don't attach any significance to the current rash of fast times at 800/1500 among the US juniors these days - there is no point in obsessing on junior performances if they don't follow through as seniors.
Nijel Amos ran 1:41 and has never failed a drug test. How much more could he have improved? The WR is 1:40!!! Rudisha and Symmonds havn't run faster in that race either. Maybe you should be questioning the Olympic track length too. Absolutely ridiculous thread of epic proportions.
The troll miler meter wrote:
For someone who slanders African athletes based on suspicion of drugs and age cheating on nothing more than being fast and from an African country, you Metric Miler should be banned for being a racist. A racist troll
+1
How many collage age Americans ran their PB's at age 18/19 or 20 and never improved on that? You all make it sound like running faster than 1:41 should be a piece of cake after you've done it once...
SAIDS (South-Africa Anti Doping Agency) is mainly responsible for the testing of athletes in SA. I don't exactly know how it works, but they are sub contracted to do the tests for the Botswana federation and WADA. WADA only sends agents on rare occurrences. I may be wrong here, but thats my understanding.
I also said I think that articles is bullshit, especially when they said he was informed prior to the test. Doesn't make sense, I think someone was making money by saying stuff to the media.
In retrospect, if you've ever been to South-Africa you'll know that most people live in gated communities with security gates and guards in many cases. Thats the only reason they might have had to inform him. Some of these security complexes have a policy that they only let visitors in with prior notice from the house owner. A average security guard wouldn't even know what WADA is and just tell them to go away without even contacting you.
Last, I've said this in a previous post and I'm just copying and pasting here:
Life sometimes happens and when you are 21/22 years old even more so. How many times did you forget to tell your mother where you were if you went somewhere, even if she begged you to not forget and keep her updated? I forget all the time and my mom freaks out, she's worse than WADA about whereabouts.
I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just trying to put things into perspective. Another thing, its not like he missed three in a row, I think if you were able to look at the temporal distribution of the missed tests it would be far apart. It's not like your allowed to miss three tests after every one you give, your 'counter' doesn't reset. He may have been tested a couple of times between the missed ones.
There is nothing racist about what Metric Miler has posted. He has only stated what many other posters have written. It is a fact that many African athletes have been caught age cheating. It is also a fact that many African countries don't have random out of season testing.
These are facts not racist comments.
You sir are the troll.
ISBN wrote:
It is also a fact that many African countries don't have random out of season testing.
I can't believe how many people are so misinformed on this. You really think that if Nijel Amos is in Botswana that he won't be tested just because Botswana doesn't have an independent anti-doping agency? It's that simple? So why don't every American and European athlete that want to dope just go to a poor country without an anti-doping organization and train there? You know why not? Because when there is no local anti-doping agency, international testers fly in and test athletes. John Ngugi was banned in the early 1990s for refusing a test after an international tester showed up at his house in rural Kenya. This isn't a secret.
Zuma wrote:
How many collage age Americans ran their PB's at age 18/19 or 20 and never improved on that? You all make it sound like running faster than 1:41 should be a piece of cake after you've done it once...
SAIDS (South-Africa Anti Doping Agency) is mainly responsible for the testing of athletes in SA. I don't exactly know how it works, but they are sub contracted to do the tests for the Botswana federation and WADA. WADA only sends agents on rare occurrences. I may be wrong here, but thats my understanding.
I also said I think that articles is bullshit, especially when they said he was informed prior to the test. Doesn't make sense, I think someone was making money by saying stuff to the media.
In retrospect, if you've ever been to South-Africa you'll know that most people live in gated communities with security gates and guards in many cases. Thats the only reason they might have had to inform him. Some of these security complexes have a policy that they only let visitors in with prior notice from the house owner. A average security guard wouldn't even know what WADA is and just tell them to go away without even contacting you.
Last, I've said this in a previous post and I'm just copying and pasting here:
Life sometimes happens and when you are 21/22 years old even more so. How many times did you forget to tell your mother where you were if you went somewhere, even if she begged you to not forget and keep her updated? I forget all the time and my mom freaks out, she's worse than WADA about whereabouts.
I'm not trying to make excuses, I'm just trying to put things into perspective. Another thing, its not like he missed three in a row, I think if you were able to look at the temporal distribution of the missed tests it would be far apart. It's not like your allowed to miss three tests after every one you give, your 'counter' doesn't reset. He may have been tested a couple of times between the missed ones.
Come on. There are 21/22 year old athletes that have to follow all the drug testing rules in Western countries. Amos has been to school he is not stupid.
Correct, WADA only send agents in rare cases, such as when one of the top 800m guys in the world doesn't get tested in the off session and has missed tests.
We have heard about notified testing FROM ATHLETES in Ethiopia. It happens. It is real.
The article is not bullshit simply posters around here want to cover their eyes and say that African athletes never cheat it's all Western lies. OF COURSE they cheat. Western athletes cheat and African people are NO DIFFERENT.
If there was no drug testing in pace in the UK we'd be churning out doped athletes too.
I REALLY want to know the reason that some posters here think that athletes in Kenya and other African countries would not be cheating despite a lack of testing. Really, what makes them stay clean?
This racism claims against me are extremely illfounded. Yes I am English but I am half Moroccan, can speak Arabic and will tell you Morocco has a drugs problem in athletics. I'm sorry El Keinanio and 'troll metric miler' don't like considered discussion. If this was an American athlete then this thread would be hundreds of post long with every poster saying he is dirty.
Jeff Wigand wrote:
ISBN wrote:It is also a fact that many African countries don't have random out of season testing.
I can't believe how many people are so misinformed on this. You really think that if Nijel Amos is in Botswana that he won't be tested just because Botswana doesn't have an independent anti-doping agency? It's that simple? So why don't every American and European athlete that want to dope just go to a poor country without an anti-doping organization and train there? You know why not? Because when there is no local anti-doping agency, international testers fly in and test athletes. John Ngugi was banned in the early 1990s for refusing a test after an international tester showed up at his house in rural Kenya. This isn't a secret.
I'll answer that.
Yes, he will hardly be tested in the off season because his country does not do out of competition testing. WADA will send some agents on rare occasions but it is expensive to do this often.
If British and American athletes go to other countries to train then their national anti-doping agencies (UKAD and USADA) will go and test them.
These are both, no secrets.
Metric Miler wrote:
I think Amos is dirty because he is not subject to out of season drug testing in his home country (I couldn't give a shit where he is from, this is the only detail that is relevant to me) and he has missed two drugs tests that he was notified about beforehand.
I'm not a racist. I am simply pragmatic in my opinions. No drug testing = dirty athletes. That goes for every country in the world.
It is human nature to cheat.
This is my problem with your posts, MM. You assume they are guilty on absence of evidence.
Kennis Dimetto wrote:
Metric Miler wrote:I think Amos is dirty because he is not subject to out of season drug testing in his home country (I couldn't give a shit where he is from, this is the only detail that is relevant to me) and he has missed two drugs tests that he was notified about beforehand.
I'm not a racist. I am simply pragmatic in my opinions. No drug testing = dirty athletes. That goes for every country in the world.
It is human nature to cheat.
This is my problem with your posts, MM. You assume they are guilty on absence of evidence.
Really?
Or do I express suspicion at the evidence of an athlete who has missed two drugs tests despite being notified about them?
"Sometimes I wonder. Will I ever be the same."
"The Four Tops, Baby, I Need Your Lovin'"
Metric Miler wrote:
Kennis Dimetto wrote:This is my problem with your posts, MM. You assume they are guilty on absence of evidence.
Really?
Or do I express suspicion at the evidence of an athlete who has missed two drugs tests despite being notified about them?
It seems to me that you go beyond expressing suspicion.
Don't get me wrong, I would love all dopers to be caught and banned for life.
But, and talking about this specific case, why do you think (seriously) that the person saying he missed those tests, in those circumstances, is speaking the truth?
Metric Miler wrote:
I'll answer that.
Yes, he will hardly be tested in the off season because his country does not do out of competition testing. WADA will send some agents on rare occasions but it is expensive to do this often.
If British and American athletes go to other countries to train then their national anti-doping agencies (UKAD and USADA) will go and test them.
These are both, no secrets.
You think UKAD is flying people to Portland to test Mo Farah? Or USADA is testing the Americans in Teddington? That UKAD was flying over testers on a regular basis to Japan for Mara Yamauchi, when accredited Japanese testers are a car ride away? Or that Australia is flying in testers across a dozen timezones to test Sally Pearson and Ryan Gregson in Europe or America? Testing of foreign athletes is done by the accredited ADO and if none exists for that area, international testers are flown in from the nearest regional testing facility. Wouldn't that save on expenses? How often? Depends on the size of your target.
Kennis Dimetto wrote:
Metric Miler wrote:Really?
Or do I express suspicion at the evidence of an athlete who has missed two drugs tests despite being notified about them?
It seems to me that you go beyond expressing suspicion.
Don't get me wrong, I would love all dopers to be caught and banned for life.
But, and talking about this specific case, why do you think (seriously) that the person saying he missed those tests, in those circumstances, is speaking the truth?
There is only suspicion. Athletes are innocent until proven guilty like all others. I think some posters here are having trouble understanding my specific wording. 'I think' does not mean 'I know'.
In this specific case the report of the apparent missed test appears to be after the IAAF filed and 'missed test' report and sent it to Botswanan Athletics Association. The spokesperson for the BAA appears to be the one interviewed by this Botswanan newspaper.
I understand many news outlets are not extremely trustworthy but I like the saying 'no smoke without fire' and here we are weighing up: is the entire story made up by this newspaper including the interview/BAA spokesperson lying? Vs. Did Amos just miss a drugs test?
i agree with spencer wrote:
so if you compare amos and brazier's times they are pretty similar, and then that means brazier could run 1:42 this year or next
"At the 2011 African Junior Athletics Championships, Amos ran a Botswana Junior Record time of 1:47.28. Further improving on his record, Amos finished fifth in the 800 metres at the 2011 World Youth Championships in Athletics.[2] In 2012 he improved his National Senior Record to 1:43.11 during a race in Mannheim. He became champion at the 2012 World Junior Championships in Athletics, finishing in a new championship record of 1:43.79. In the 2012 Summer Olympics, Amos won a silver medal in the men's 800 m race, the first Olympic medal for his country.[3] His time of 1:41.73 established a new World Junior Record behind the new World Record set by David Rudisha and is tied with Sebastian Coe for the third fastest individual ever.[4]
After an injury filled 2013 season, Amos returned to form in 2014. At the 2014 Prefontaine Classic, Amos set a meet record and world leading time of 1:43.63.[5] At the Herculis IAAF Diamond League, he again set a meet record and world leading mark of 1:42.45.[6] Beating Rudisha for the 2nd time on the season, his performance was the fastest 800m race since the men's 800 m race. At the 2014 Commonwealth Games, Amos won the 800 meter Gold medal in 1:45.18. In the tactical affair, Amos maneuvered out of a box to pass World Record holder David Rudisha in the last 50 meters."
so it looks like he ran 1:47 as a 17yr old, then 1:43.11, and a 1:43.79, then 1:41.73 and the olympics the next year
brazier ran 1:48.07, then the next year 1:43.55...so lets see what he does at the trials, my guess is a low 1:43, and then lets see what he can do in rio!
Actually, Brazier ran 1:47.55 last year and 1:48.61 in 2014 (as a 17 year old).
TrackCoach wrote:
what say you wrote:Don't know a whole lot about world junior records but saw the extreme excitement when it came to Brazier's 1:43.5
Is 1:41.73 really the world record? This seems insane. This is light years faster than Brazier. What's the deal? Is this record the product of doping?
It is almost universally understood that every youth and junior record over 400m is false and is the result of age fraud. Amos' 1:41.73 was supposedly run at age 18, that is still his PR 4 years latter. Nearly all of the Africans on the junior 800m top-10 list never improved much beyond their junior marks, which suggest they were probably in their mid-20s when competing as juniors.
why "over 400m"? Is it because the WJR for 400m was set by an American, winning an Olympic gold in the process and then never came particularly close to that time again? Or does that not fit with your rhetoric?