8th grade girl runs 4:51 mile

She did run the 4:51 on a track. The photo is a file photo from an xc race.

Paula Radcliffe is over 120lbs. Obviously she can never run a good 5K, she must despair.

I think Paula is 112.. at least thats what they said doing the commentary during the olynpics when they couldn't stop commenting on hoe big she was and how much harder it is for her to run b/c she's so much bigger... yeah she's a cow.. give me a break

Bull? Really?? Radcliff races at about 115 and she's on the high end because of her height. She is certainly the exception. Look up the racing weights of Kastor, Noguchi, Dibaba, etc... I think Kastor races at 102 for marathons. Noguchi is under 100 lbs. But the point is that these are their NATURAL racing weights while under a rigorous training program with a good nutritional diet. They are not starving themselves to get there. In distance running smaller is better, just like taller is better in basketball. If you haven't figured that out, time to brush up on high school physics.

I'm not saying a 12-13 year old girl destined to be 120-130 lbs can't have an excellent high school and even college running career at 5k/10K. But that's not what Mr. non-Californian is talking about, is it? He's dropping names of former Olympians. So Hasay might be great at 1500m, but any longer depends on how big she gets. That's why there are lots of good high school girls who can run 17-18 for 5k, but they never break through to the 15-16 min level no matter how much training they do.

Joe:

I think you make some really good points. I have spoken to her and her parents and everything you have said is consistent with my experience as well. She seems like a great kid all around.

But I also would slightly disagree with a couple of things you have said regarding her training. First, I don't think she is undertrained at all. From what her parents told me she trains for running 5 days/week and swims 4-5 days per week. Then usually races one or twice on the weekends. I remember a couple of weekends in a row last XC season where she had a 4k race on Saturday and a 5k race on Sunday. Her ability to recover is obviously amazing.

In short, she has 10 aerobic workouts per week plus 1 or 2 races. I heard her daily runs are 5-6 miles at a pretty good clip in addition to her interval days. Undertrained? I don't think so. Certainly not for a pre-high school runner. In fact, I'm not sure when she finds time to study!

Also, I think when one sees her in person, you are struck by two things immediately: 1. How muscular she is and 2. small she is. Her body type looks more like a gymnist than runner. Very compact and very muscular.

Is she still going to attend Mission Prep? Is that school still in the Central Section? Thanks for the update Joe. I think we should be more supportive than suspicious of these gifted runners. I for one can't wait to see her run next year at the high school level. Good luck Jordon.

They race at such low weight b/c they are short. I agree, most 5k runners are shorter, BUT you can't say tere aren't good 5k runners over 120, more accurate would be sating most are shorter (therefore weight less). Its more about the proportions than the body weight.

For example.. a few great 5k runners I assume to be at least 120

Emily Kroshus (actally, prob better at longer stuff)

Kate Boyles

Vicky Gill

Renee Metivier

Sally Meyerhoff

You're sort of right. They are shorter, and proportion is important, as are other things like natural gait, VO2 max, etc... But an extremely athletic, well conditioned woman who weighs 130 lbs will NEVER win the London marathon.

I've seen some fast 12-13 year old girls over the years. Some go on to be good college careers, some don't. When I meet a fast 12 year old's parents and the Dad is 6'2" and the Mom 5'7", the girl is almost slower at 17 than she was at 13. That's just the way it goes.

Marla Runyan is 5'7"

Katie MacGregor 5'8"

Lauren Fleshman 5'8"

Bianna Shook 5'9"

some a little less well known:

Cack Ferrel.. 6'(?)

Emily Logan 5'7" (?)

I'm sure there are many more...

I think that tall people can be just as good, they just fall off a bit after they grow, but if they train differently after growing the can be just as good if not better than before they grew

So, while most distance runners tend to be shorter, I don't think you can make those generalizations.. Doesn't it have more to do with the individual and less to do with stature?

The problem with being able to run fast at such an early age isn't so much burning out, but just staying with it. It is reality that any girl will grow up, gain alittle weight, but EVERY girl does. And when Jordan does, it will be up to her and her coach (and parents for support, and also make sure she is making the right choices when it comes to nutrition, etc - some young talents try to maintain an old weight that isn't feasible and eventually become anorexic) to realize this, compensate for it and keep working hard. It may hinder her performances at the beginning, but eventually if she keeps at it, she will be running just as fast, and hopefully faster. Good Luck Jordan!

Yes, it does ultimately depend on the individual. Runyon and the others are still pretty lean, however. Not too hippy, etc..

I am probably making too great a generalization, but I've seen many girls slow down in their teen years. It's very hard for them to accept that, and it's a real challenge as a coach. I often wonder if they would have been better off staying out of running until they were in high school. Then they at least would have probably shown steady improvement and enjoyed their high school career more.

It is not shocking for a young pre-pubescent girl to run that fast. They are light and their training really doesn't matter all that much, trust me I was one of them. You cannot talk about how good some little girl is going to be until you wait until she is older. Puberty ruins a lot of female runners, especially the young ones. When as a senior in high school, she is running just as proportionally fast, then I'll listen to you, but for now - lay off man, this girl ran fast as a 12 year old, but she is far off from being "for real".

metivier is WAY under 120, she is only 5'2, she is very strong but also 15 pounds under your assumption (known her for years... sorry renee)

You're spot on. I think pre-pubescent kids should be prevented from racing too much. Hasay is obviously a good athlete, but she's not turning up at races on the weekend on her own. In my experience this is almost always more about parents' egos than the athlete.

Good luck to her. Time will tell.

Thanks and sorry.. I forgot she was shorter.. its been awhile since I've raced her, for some reason I thought she was taller.. Sorry!!

It depends how tall they are. Joyce Chepchumba was 117-120 and she's 5'6. If a 5'11 or 6' woman wins the marathon, it will be different figures there.

and Marion Sutton is over 130, she won Chicago twice.

You got me there. There are exceptions, of course, so I shouldn't have used the word 'never'. Isn't Sutton about 6 feet tall? Anyway, I think Sutton's PB is around 2:29 if I'm not mistaken.

You all know that women's marathoning is going through a dramatic change as more and more world class track and XC athletes like Radcliff, Kastor, etc.. are moving up to the marathon. This is really a relatively new phenomenon for the women's marathon. As it is, 2:29 is usually not going to cut it at major races, especially fast ones like Chicago. I'm not sure someone Sutton's size would be capable of going under 2:20 or even low 2:20s. But I'll never say never again!

No f'in way is she undertrained. No f'in way a 13 year old girl runs 4:51 on no speedwork, I don't care how talented she is. Running the mile fast requires a specific type of training, including anaerobic work. Most NBA players in season couldn't run that time because they don't train for that kind of event.

No f'in way are her parents and coach low key, unless you consider her Dad disseminating press releases as low key. Is she talented? You bet. Will she be the next Mary Decker? Who knows. But please don't insult our intelligence. Let the parents ease their consciences some other way.

Tough one. Whom to believe: RunDaddy, a man of no reading comprehension abilities and no knowledge of the situation or . . . Joe Rubio. After much pondering, I think I'll go with Mr. Rubio's assessment.