Peruvian runners - the new rivals to Kenya/Ethiopia and Japan

[quote]Ghost1 wrote:

That 'doping' alert (against female runner - Tejeda) - was a 'one off.' She was taking meds for a condition, and was not aware of the meds being on a prohibited list.

The High Andes Peruvian runners are ethically very high moral and non cheating people. They are much more honest than the lowland people. I have found the same thing to be true in Ecuador and Colombia - high altitude people are mostly honest and do everything above board. This is due to the example of their humble parents, who never put a foot wrong.

Ghost in China,

Interesting tidbits about the ethics and morality of highland versus lowland people in South America. Is that like in the US where northeasterners are all stuck up, two-faced pseudo-intellectuals as compared to southerners, who are honest, friendly and easy-going?

titicaca wrote:

Interesting tidbits about the ethics and morality of highland versus lowland people in South America. Is that like in the US where northeasterners are all stuck up, two-faced pseudo-intellectuals as compared to southerners, who are honest, friendly and easy-going?

Yes, among other people who would "never dope"

Swiss people, because they have good ethics:

Catholics, policemen and muslims:

illiterate people:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

The noble savage schtick is really old.

No as old as the long worn-out "honest" American schtick.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Interesting but they are well off the pace

Even sub 2:10 is nothing special nowadays

Let me know when they put in a noteworthy performance

Well, the USA marathoners ALL failed to run sub 2:10 at the USA trials.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

titicaca wrote:

Interesting tidbits about the ethics and morality of highland versus lowland people in South America. Is that like in the US where northeasterners are all stuck up, two-faced pseudo-intellectuals as compared to southerners, who are honest, friendly and easy-going?

Yes, among other people who would "never dope"

Swiss people, because they have good ethics:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4466362

Catholics, policemen and muslims:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6887589&page=1

illiterate people:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4013888

That list of "would nevers" needs to include you, mr obvious. Those who complain the most are the guiltiest of all.

Mo. Obvious wrote:

Mr. Obvious wrote:

The noble savage schtick is really old.

No as old as the long worn-out "honest" American schtick.

I don't recall Ghost ever employing that particular schtick...the only American I remember him defending is Eddy...not sure, feel free to post examples...

USA USA USA wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Interesting but they are well off the pace

Even sub 2:10 is nothing special nowadays

Let me know when they put in a noteworthy performance

Well, the USA marathoners ALL failed to run sub 2:10 at the USA trials.

The average LRer is comparing the Peruvians with the Ryan Hall's 2:04.58 effort (with a hurricane in his back) in Boston.

Ecuador also have good runners. Byron Piedra has an exceptional range between 1500m (3:37) and Marathon (2:14).

Athletes from Andes Mountains also have good racewalkers. Ecuador, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia. All with good results in 20k/50k RW.

I wonder why Italian Coaches like Renato Canova or Dr. Rosa don't prove their knowledges/training methods in altitude in that Andean regions.

With this, I'm not saying that Rodolfo Gomez is a bad coach.

But Italians could create many other sub 2:08 athletes in the road running scene (not only West Africans).

There's a youtube video of football in high altitude (La Paz stadium, Bolivia).

Even Lionel Messi struggled in that altitude. He almost couldn't breathe in that conditions.

Rodolfo Gomez was born in October 1950 - which means he is 66 years (young) this year (2016).Time flies, and he is still fit and healthy, unlike some of his teammates - like Jose Gomez, who look more like heavy weight boxers now. Obesity has become a major problem in Mexico, with the cheap availability of junk food, and Mexican propensity to drink coke like water, and an over dependence on carbohydrate rich foods. Some of the former athletes have fallen victim to type 2 diabetes, which is a very unfortunate affliction. Mexico needs to seriously address this junk food diet issue, as the nation is now near the top in obesity rates.

The Mexicans have unusual eating habits. Usually nothing in the morning, until around 10am, when they like to eat a nice big 'bocadillo' (ham and cheese sandwich) washed down with a half litre of coke. Lunch, in most Mexican households - will not take place until 2 - 3pm, and that is the major meal of the day. Different foods adorn the table, but the mainstay are either corn or flour based tortillas, which accompany almost every dish.

Unfortunately, or fortunately - the Spanish introduced meat and cheese to the Mexican diet - and now, the over reliance on both has contributed to an over abundance of those proteins, in addition to carbohydrate over abundance and coke and soft drinks. Before the arrival of the Conquistadores, the basic elements of the Mexican diet were very healthy, but this has now changed, to the detriment of people's health in Mexico, which is something like a time bomb. Go to any school in Mexico city, and obesity sticks out, unlike 30 - 40 years ago, when poverty prevented people from ingesting too many calories in Mexico.

Back to the thread topic - Gomez has trained athletes like Andres Espinosa, German Silva, Isidro Rico and Adriana Fernandez, among others. None of his athletes - not a single one, has ever been implicated in doping, and nor has he - Gomez himself;

In Mexico city - he used to have his group train at the Ciudad Universitaria, every morning (6.30am ) - and for their longer runs they would go to 'Las Lomas' -which has some trails. Other venues for training included Toluca, and the mountains there, including running uphill to the top (but coming down by mini bus).

Ghost in China,

www.omeida.com

Ghost -

As a peruvian who knows many peruvians and many of the runners down there (5-6 of the people you've named under 2:18), I am surprised by your blanket statements about Peruvians.

There are different "types" of Peruvians, as I'm sure you know (the people in the city and those outside have been raised very differently). But to say that all Peruvians have high ethical and moral standards is misleading.

If you look at the crime rates across Peru you will see that some of these "moral/ethical" standards you speak of are missing across large portions of the population, especially when you consider crimes like corruption, counterfeiting currency, pirated goods and credit card fraud (all non-violent but unethical crimes).

Now this doesn't map directly to doping in running, but your statements are a bit strange. Similar statements can be said about Kenyans, etc but when a coach shows up and there are incentives (i.e. thousands of dollars) the ethical standards can be thrown out the window.

No money wrote:

They are relatively poor, and have little money; not rich like Americans. Who exactly would be paying for these drugs Americans are so worried about?

I thought Peruvians were Americans.

You make some very good points, but if you look at the crime statistics of cities in Peru, the coastal cities have much higher rates of crime, per capita, compared to the Highland cities and towns - not that there is no crime in those areas - there is - but on a much smaller scale.

Those crime rates, are somewhat linked to culture - and as you know, Andean culture (Quechua) places high dominance on the family, and honesty and morals go with that. In coastal cities, many of the youth have been disenfranchised, and with the overcrowded classrooms in public schools in Lima, many drop out, and the temptation to go the 'wrong way' is there.

This is a cultural thing - and it is similar in Ecuador - where per capita crime is much higher in Guayaquil (the coastal city) compared with Quito (the capital, in the mountains), once again, because, in part, the indigenous populations in both Ecuador and Peru are less prone to engage in crime. The prison population in both countries are mostly 'mestizos.' Indigenous people are under represented in the prison populations in Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador and Colombia. This speaks volumes about their adherence to the laws and mores of their countries, and their willingness not to succomb to the temptations of deleterious acts.

Mucho gusto hablar con usted, Senor Peruano, y ojala que los corredores Peruanos de largas distancias hacen un buen papel en Rio. Tienen el potencial muy grande.

Ghost in China,

www.omeida.com

Ummmmmm.... A bit biased? They are just like everyone else, different body type? Sure. Honest, humble people? They have a mix of everything just like everywhere else. Thanks for the history lesson--Looks like somebody else is promoting El Inca Garcilaso de la Vega (who was an oportunist just like EVERYBODY). I hope that when you were in Cusco and Puno you paid high-dollar, because that would be the honest and humble thing to do.

Rodolfo Gomez signed a contract to take him through the Olympics this summer in Rio, where he hopes for great things from his Peruvian athletes (Gomez is Mexican, but there are close affinities).

The training has taken place in the following high altitude cities - Huancayo (the base city), situated at 3400m above sea level, Huancavelica, Cusco, Puno (close to 4000m!), Arequipas, Huarez and Pasco.

Under Gomez's expert guidance, no fewer than 200 runners have been selected in Peru for the elite marathon program. 30 of those runners are fully sponsored with monthly stipends and board and lodging, travel expenses, and all expenses paid for equipment and travel, including overseas trips.

130 runners are partially sponsored, and have their food and lodging expenses taken care of. Gomez commented that it is easy to work with the Peruvians, because they have the birth advantage (most come from the afore mentioned high altitude locales) of high altitude.

Gomez further commented that the Peruvians have the same potential as the East Africans, but that the training infrastructure has been missing up till now, as well as the much needed financial support. But with full backing from the Peru Federation, Gomez envisages big change, and claims that Peruvian runners could obtain medals in Rio.

Interesting to note that Gomez is married to Adriana Fernandez - the 2:24:06 marathon runner, from Mexico city, who also hold all the track distance records in Mexico, from 3000 to 10,000, including a nifty 15:30 for 5000. Fernandez also has a 2:25 from NYC, showing her true potential could be even faster than her pb of 2:24:06. She is similar to many of the Japanese female marathoners running similar times, in that with a 15:30 - 5000 she has run good marathons in relation to that track time.

Gomez came to Peru, because he felt that he was not getting the support he needed in Mexico, these last few years. Mexican distance running has been in the doldrums for the last decade, with no improvement in sight. Since the retirement of Kempka, the Pole, who trained all the best Mexicans in the late 70s and early 80s, including Barrios and a crew of sub 28 minutes and sub 2:10 marathoners, Mexico has not had the same level.

The Mexican Federation, might be responsible for that suggests Gomez. Gomez also mentioned that he has had many coaching offers from different countries, and he will decide his future after Rio. Next year, at age 67 years, he will still have some good years ahead in the coaching domain.

Ghost in China,

www.omeida.com

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Can anyone summarize Ghost's diarrhea of the mouth in this thread?

A few words about Fernandez. This year she celebrated her 45th birthday, so she is 21 years younger than her coach husband - Rodolfo Gomez. She started running in 1987, to accompany her father who was an avid runner, at the time. She also ran to lose weight.

At age 19 years, she started training under coach Rodolfo Gomez - her future partner, even though there was a 20 year age gap. Love transcends no age boundaries, and even the gossip had no effect on this relationship. Mexico is a fundamentally very conservative society, but men hold the reins, even though things are getting more occidentalized with modernity and the advent of the www.

Her first medal in international competition was in the Central American Games in Puerto Rico, in 1993, where she finished third in the 3000m. Times will not be mentioned, at this stage, because they were not a reflection of her true potential. In 1995, in the Pan Am Games in Mar del Plata, she finished third in the 5000.

From 1995, she became a Mexican International runner. She ran her debut marathon in Houston, in 1996. Injuries, however, prevented her from competing in the Games in Atlanta, 1996.

Fast track to 1999 onward, where she had 5 years at the top international level, which saw her establish all her records on the track and roads in different locales.

1500 - 4:15.96, 3000 - 8:53.53, 5000 - 15:04.32, 10,000 - 31:10.12, half marathon - 1:09.28, 30km - 1:40.51, marathon - 2:24.06.

Fernandez is a good example of a runner with little native foot speed, who got better as the distances increased, but even her track times were very respectable. She laments the fact that the Mexican level in distance running these days has fallen to such lows.

Hopefully, this might change in the future, if partner - Rodolfo Gomez, is offered the chance to overhaul the current Mexican distance running allocation system, and impose his own way, which has seen superb results everywhere he has been up till now. Rodolfo Gomez is, arguably, one of the best - if not the best - marathon coaches in the world. If he had the resources of a Salazar setup, he would have athletes challenging at a higher level still.

Ghost in China,

www.omeida.com

The country of Mexico has produced a number of famous marathoners

Dionisio Ceron won the prestigious London Marathon three years in a row (1994 in 2:08:53, 1995 in 2:08:30 and 1996 in 2:10:00)

Andres Espinosa was second at the Boston Marathon in 1994 by just 4 seconds. His time of 2:07:19 in that race is the current Mexican national record

The best finishing places by Mexicans in the Olympic marathon is German Silva in fifth place at Atlanta and Rodolfo Gomez in sixth place at Moscow.

In the famous New York City Marathon,

Salvador Garcia became the first Mexican winner of this race in 1991 with a winning time of 2:09:28. Fellow countrymen Andres Espinosa placed second; and Isidro Rico took fifth in the same race.

In 1993, after finishing second in the two preceding years, Andres Espinosa took first place in a time of 2:10:04. Months before the race, Espinosa had replaced the Volkswagen symbol on his Jetta with a Mercedes-Benz ornament, representing the spoils of a New York City victory. Then he went to a forest near Mexico City to train at altitude (9,000 feet to be exact).

In 1994, the race was reduced down to two Mexicans near the end, German Silva and Benjamin Paredes on a hot day. Near disaster struck when German Silva followed a police escort vehicle and took a wrong turn off the course. Fortunately, he recovered and won in a time of 2:11:21. Silva grew up without running water or electricity on an orange farm in Mexico's steamy Veracruz state where he ran to school everyday. According to family legend, Silva took up running after the family mule pitched him off its back one day instead of getting him to class on time. When asked by the Mexican president what he wished for, Silva asked for electricity for his tiny village of Tecomate.

In 1995, in 42-degree weather and windchills, German Silva still ran nearly the same race. He had a competitor at his side most of the way, not distancing himself from Englishman Paul Evans until nearly the 25-mile mark. At that point, Silva sprinted hard and won in 2:11:00 to repeat as the winner.

Perhaps the most memorable Mexican male runner is someone who did not win the race. In 1982, Rodolfo Gomez dueled with the American Alberto Salazar all the way to the end, to finish just 4 seconds behind in 2:09:33. That memorable race coincided with the rise of the marathon as a competitive sport as well as a mass participation phenomenon. At the awards ceremony that evening, Gomez spoke in Spanish, at length and with passion. The only available translator was Salazar's Cuban-born father, José, who simply informed the audience, "Rodolfo says he loves New York, and he loves Alberto." Gomez would go on to become an influential running coach.

What does it take to become a world-class marathoner? Here is the description of German Silva's training program:

While many world-class runners work out near Boulder, Colo., where elevations range from 5,800 to 10,000 feet, the volcano where Silva and his teammates train - Nevado de Toluca - is higher still. The volcano, known as Xinantecatl in the native Nahuatl tongue, rises to 15,387 feet at its peak, making it Mexico's fourth-highest mountain. The weather surrounding it is a study in contrasts - almost always blisteringly hot at the bottom and frigid year-round at the top.

At those altitudes, a flatlander in marathon shape sees white flashes before his eyes while training. Some runners sleep on their backs at such heights because breathing is too laborious on their stomachs.

Silva and his running partners seek the pain that comes with the altitude. They live for up to a week at a time at a hostel on the mountain at 12,300 feet. Every morning, their feet pound against the sinuous, boulder-strewn paths. Every evening they return in subfreezing temperatures to the hostel, which has no heat, electricity or running water.

In between there are no showers, only a change into fresh running clothes, hasty meals of tortillas and beans and time to think about the training regimen ahead - another day's run up to the crater of the volcano, a second run along a plateau to a volcanic lake, and when the day or week is out, a run down the stark mountain.

"It's a place of suffering, more than anything. ... But doing it proves to yourself that you are prepared to endure a lack of comfort in order to be more, to become more,'' Silva said.

"It is a place you have to understand and have respect for. Running it is so hard that every race seems easy in comparison. For me, it gives me strength.''

Ghost in China,

www.omeida.com

too lazy to read wrote:

Can anyone summarize Ghost's diarrhea of the mouth in this thread?

I think he's saying coastal south americans are lazy and shiftless and highland south americans are meek and virtuous, which is why they are emerging as strong distance runners.

USA USA USA wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Interesting but they are well off the pace

Even sub 2:10 is nothing special nowadays

Let me know when they put in a noteworthy performance

Well, the USA marathoners ALL failed to run sub 2:10 at the USA trials.

That's why they never win anything either