Abeylegasse Busted for doping

MAYEROFF wrote:

I've tried my best to show my mom (69 years old) how to copy-and-paste links and text into emails (on her desktop with a proper mouse) but I have failed. I think that you have to be under 50 to know how to copy-and-paste

It's true. I hit 50 last week and I'm already having trouble hitting the right buttons.

We need Age Grade Tables for computer skills.

Wait a second...

What does this have to do with Ethiopian athletes? This woman has never represented Ethiopia. EVER. It seems, to the most part the talentless once are the once, who run away from Ethiopia go to some Arab or European country get dropped and get busted. (Abeba Aregawi, Elvan Abiylegesse...and I am sure mid to come) So far we heard only SIX just SIX Ethiopians that are "suspected" compared to Russians, Kenyans, Belorussians, Ukrainians... Ethiopians as well as Moroccans are doing pretty good. It is not fair to associate those Ethiopian born athletes, who dropped with Ethiopia, when they dope and claim them as "European" or "Gulf Arabs", when they "win". There seems to be just some sort witch hunt going on against Ethiopians and to lesser extent Kenyans and Eastern Europeans.... Mostly from those countries, who seem to have a hard time of winning in middle and long distances as well as marathon. They also seem increasingly non existent in short distances, except their "colored" citizens. Generally, to compensate their increasing displacement and disappearance of many 'manly' sports, they use their tight grip of international sport institutions and media outlets to chase out competitors rather than facing them in sporting fields.

not elite ... Move along wrote:

It was a joke. I was pointing out how ridiculous the 'drugs dont work on elites' argument is getting.

What is ridiculous about that argument? Has there ever been any scientific research on it?

Nothing is impossible but how likely is it that, really? I suppose some elite Jamaican (or pick American) sprinters would not respond to steroids. It's possible, has anyone studied it? Has anyone taken the 9.9 sprinters and subjected one group to steroids and a control group to nothing? If not, then how can we know?1. Look at cycling or the triathlons and see how people improved. There have been cyclists raised at altitude who doped and improved. Now we are to believe that a subset of people see absolutely no benefit and they just happen to be the doominant athletes in a country without a compliant testing program.2. There is no way to research it. Which elite is going to waste eligibility on being a PED research subject? This is just a talking point.3.the goalposts keep moving. Now, 2:06 high runners are not elite.

lffl wrote:

not elite ... Move along wrote:

It was a joke. I was pointing out how ridiculous the 'drugs dont work on elites' argument is getting.

What is ridiculous about that argument? Has there ever been any scientific research on it?

Goucher and Flanagan bumping up to silver.

Not elite... Move Along wrote:

Nothing is impossible but how likely is it that, really? I suppose some elite Jamaican (or pick American) sprinters would not respond to steroids. It's possible, has anyone studied it? Has anyone taken the 9.9 sprinters and subjected one group to steroids and a control group to nothing? If not, then how can we know?

1. Look at cycling or the triathlons and see how people improved. There have been cyclists raised at altitude who doped and improved. Now we are to believe that a subset of people see absolutely no benefit and they just happen to be the doominant athletes in a country without a compliant testing program.

2. There is no way to research it. Which elite is going to waste eligibility on being a PED research subject? This is just a talking point.

How can we know? I just said it. By doing scientific research.

There is a way to research it. By getting some of these elite runners to participate in a scientific study. Why are you acting like this is impossible?

But none of this is relevant to what I asked really. I asked why is it ridiculous to think that drugs may not have an effect on the top runners. Just because we don't know doesn't make it a "ridiculous" idea. We just don't know either way so it's ridiculous to call someone ridiculous about it.

You said to look at cyclists and triathletes. So what? Looking isn't science. Why would you need an elite to waste eligibility? Why not just use one of the elites that is suspended or banned?

Is there any scientific research that says water is wet? Are there any research papers showing the Earth is round? I've heard 2 + 2 is 4, but that experiment was only done in base ten. I refuse to believe it until they test it with roman numerals...

Science doesn't prove facts, it tests hypothesis. Theories are confirmed or denied by the accumulation of tested hypothesis. When it comes to elites and EPO, no there are no studies that show elites benefit. Fine.

But there is nothing showing that elites should be excluded from the accepted and proven theory that EPO improves performance. The mechanisms for improved performance are not mitigated based on one fitness level or altitude nativity. If you want to see how, go read the "EPO doesn't work on Mid distance thread", (Does or doesn't? I forget the title.) or the Paula Radcliffe thread, (I think, I stopped reading it).

There is a lot of research through the centuries showing the earth is round, idiot.

Jos Landos wrote:

Wait a second...

What does this have to do with Ethiopian athletes? This woman has never represented Ethiopia. EVER. .

'In 1999, she started for the Ethiopian junior team at the IAAF World Cross Country Championships in Belfast, Northern Ireland and finished ninth. There, she was invited to a meeting in Istanbul, Turkey. Coming to Istanbul, she said that she liked it there very much'

I might not be any good on tech but at least I know my athletics

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Jos Landos wrote:

Wait a second...

What does this have to do with Ethiopian athletes? This woman has never represented Ethiopia. EVER. .

'In 1999, she started for the Ethiopian junior team at the IAAF World Cross Country Championships in Belfast, Northern Ireland and finished ninth. There, she was invited to a meeting in Istanbul, Turkey. Coming to Istanbul, she said that she liked it there very much'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvan_Abeylegesse

I might not be any good on tech but at least I know my athletics

So what? She failed to represent Ethiopia at the elite senior level and went to Turkey 17 Years ago. Her doping has no relation to Ethiopia or the federation.

Ethiopia is the least doping country relative to achievement. Too much jealousy.

boroo wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'In 1999, she started for the Ethiopian junior team at the IAAF World Cross Country Championships in Belfast, Northern Ireland and finished ninth. There, she was invited to a meeting in Istanbul, Turkey. Coming to Istanbul, she said that she liked it there very much'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvan_Abeylegesse

I might not be any good on tech but at least I know my athletics

So what? She failed to represent Ethiopia at the elite senior level and went to Turkey 17 Years ago. Her doping has no relation to Ethiopia or the federation.

Ethiopia is the least doping country relative to achievement. Too much jealousy.

I responded to a post saying she never represented Ethiopia.

all the tell tale signs of a doping regimen were there.she had a very strange looking face,was covered in acne,and with her adams apple,she looked like a tiny,thin man.saw a picture of her training in winter with a beanie over her head,and she looked somewhat like a little man,and not female.it seems when turkey dopes its women,the drugs are potent,fairly high dose and androgynising.

She may represent Turkey, but as far as I know she lives in Ethiopia. I've definitely seen her training there - not sure if that was only a brief training stint, but I got the impression that she lived/trained in Ethiopia.

Of course, that doesn't implicate Ethiopia, but it's not like she moved to Turkey 17 years ago and no longer has a connection with the country of her birth.

does not even have a residence in turkey. don't be daft.

this is how it works wrote:

does not even have a residence in turkey. don't be daft.

Wish you idiots would read this link that's been posted a few times now:

"Registered in the Enka Sports Club in Istanbul, she is coached by Ertan Hatipoglu, a former triple jumper of Turkish origin from Bulgaria. She still has a friendly relationship with other Ethiopian runners, but there is a problem with her former federation. “The officials don’t allow me to train in Ethiopia any longer", Abeylegesse says. “I train now at high altitudes in Turkey as I think that some of my former compatriots see me as a threat. They are uncomfortable with me training in Ethiopia. But I, of course, remain friends with the individual Ethiopian runners."

ukathleticscoach wrote:

I responded to a post saying she never represented Ethiopia.

... a post that responded to your somewhat illogical leap to conclude top level Ethiopians are doping because this lady, who has never represented Ethiopia beyond as a junior, but runs for Turkey (a country with a number of women recently busted for doping) was busted.

That's about as sensible as the guy who points his finger at Jamaica and mentions Ben Johnson and Linford Christie as somehow some kind of "evidence" for that.

Hi Clerk!

You can choose to leave our Paula thread...

...but no matter where you post at the LRC forums...

...you will be called an idiot...

...just like me....

... So let me welcome you to the club!..

...Fun stuff!....isn't it?

Jos Landos wrote:

Wait a second...

There seems to be just some sort witch hunt going on against Ethiopians and to lesser extent Kenyans and Eastern Europeans.... Mostly from those countries, who seem to have a hard time of winning in middle and long distances as well as marathon. They also seem increasingly non existent in short distances, except their "colored" citizens. Generally, to compensate their increasing displacement and disappearance of many 'manly' sports, they use their tight grip of international sport institutions and media outlets to chase out competitors rather than facing them in sporting fields.

Kenyans "to a lesser extent"? Please do take a seat. Also,lumping Kenya with countries like Russia that have government-supported systematic doping programmes? Ethiopia, with it's state-controlled Kenya has thousands upon thousands of runners that would be considered "elite" in most countries and has been the main focus of current doping controversy because about 40 athletes (which is still only about 1% ) have been banned for doping offences since 2012. Other than Rita Jeptoo, most of these have been third tier unknowns.

Unlike Ethiopia, Kenya is an open society. We openly discuss these problems and except for documented criminals such as terrorists, it is impossible to ban anyone from the country. So all those mercenary types that represent oil-rich gulf states continue to live and train in Kenya whilst representing their new countries and all sorts of shady characters can come in and set up shop without having to watch their backs. Ethiopia is the complete opposite and I feel the worst has passed for Kenya while we're only just beginning to scratch the tip of the iceberg for Ethiopia.

I agree. These guys will blame Somalia when Mo Farah is busted one day.

They only get confort for their failures by acccusing others of doping,